DP-24 Pops and Clicks

[Roundhill]

Sorry I offended you Gravity Jim. I was only trying to answer your question respectfully. I feel the previous posts in this thread explain this issue so all can understand the problem. Thanks for your interest.

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

I hear you Gravity Jim and Roundhill, Roundhill is correct all the details on the pop/spike issue regarding 24bit recording has been posted; I have disconnected every device from my two DP24's and pops/spikes occur in 24bit, but pop spikes do not occur in 16bit/44.1k or 48k recording settings. I am very curious what Tascam will do to fix Roundhill's DP24 and more importantly is know the detail of the fix solution. What is intriguing my new CD album "Quest" was recorded live using 14 tracks 24bit WAV files on non Tascam mixer/recorder on to an Extreme 3.0 32 GB USB 3.0 thumb drive which I then imported in my DP24. Fortunately the spike problem did not happen. However the spike/pop issues appear when the DP records in the 24bit mode. I have done a lot of research to get past the spike problem because I don't want to send my DP24's away and wait a period of time without recording access. I can't wait to hear the solution Tascam offers Roundhill.

 

[Gravity Jim]

I didn't mean to sound offended, because I'm not. But I read the thread and I didn't see a lot of ground-level troubleshooting going on, and I just found myself wondering if this was a clocking issue, a cable problem, or something that could be easily remedied. Obviously this isn't a design flaw in the DP units, because thousands officers are using them without complaint, and I don't believe that none of them are recording a 24-bit word. There must be some setting, some component, something that is happening in the specific units that are acting up, and I just got curious about trying to figure it out.

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

No problem Jim I am into exploring and discovery on my own way any ways; words can sound harsh, I'm not offended; Tascam says there are many DPs-50,000? and only few have mentioned the spike/pop problem. But when through my research it came down to only occurring at 24bit recording then the isolation and discovery of the spike/pop problem was narrowed down. Some have suggested that most DP users don't record in the 24bit mode so thus it is a non reported issue. But I don't have the stats. I'm just glad I can at least record in 16bit/44.1/48k without spike pops. Those spike/pops are loud and ugly.

 

[Sam Trenholme]

Multiple people here have reported the issue. In my case, the DP-32SD is not hooked up to a computer most of the time. It’s hooked up to my various synthesizers connected to the mains via power squids across three different outlets.

It’s not just here people are reporting pops and clicks. One Amazon review mentions “cracking noise”:

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2GGRDJSCT6MT7/

Similar issues have been reported on the DP-32SD’s big brother, the 24/96 48-track X48:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/rem...s-clicks-if-storing-projects-internal-hd.html

Now, in terms of reproducing this: Yes, I hope to have time to make a 24-bit recording, start making a lot of punch-ins and punch-outs, until I start hearing the pops. Once I do that, I can make a zipfile of the raw project, copy it to a new SD card, and see if the copy has the issue. If it does, it’s an issue which I can give to Tascam for them to have a test case. If not, then I will then trying to make a disk image file from the SD card, make a sector-by-sector copy to another SD card, and see if that reproduces it.

Since I work full time and am a single parent, I’m not sure when I will be able to make time to do that.

In terms of fixing the issue: Once I converted my projects with all of the pops and clicks from a 24-bit/44.1 project in to a 16/44.1 project, the problem went away. Since 16/44.1 is good enough for me, I consider this a usable workaround (another advantage of working with 16/44.1 is that I could exchange files with a DP-008EX project if I ever get that tiny portable studio for recording while on the road).

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

Save your research time Sam, it doesn't matter what SD card is used the pops/clicks will remain when recording at 24bit. Like I have reported previously Tascam has said this to me that is minimum problem reported by a few. But as you have noted with your links the pops/clicks concern is spreading. Roundhill has shipped his DP24 to Tascam for a fix, so I wait for his update and what Tascam has done to fix the pop/clicks. I do concur that 16 bit/44.1k/448k is good quality recording that's why I haven't sent my DP's to Tascam for repair.

 

[Lougrandview]

Hi all,
I am also experiencing this issue with our band's DP24. I've read through this entire post and thought I would chime in with what I've witnessed.

First off, I track in 24/44.1 always with my DP24, so I can't say it doesn't happen in 16bit, however judging by everyone's posts, I assume it would be fine.

Originally, everything was fine, no issues, but I think that was because we were tracking basics for drums, bass, guitars, etc. and not overdubbing (not setting markers), just running through an entire song from start to finish. Then, I started tracking vocals. I first noticed this 'pop' when I set my 'IN' point to cue for the singer. A loud nasty pop that railed the meters and blew everyone's headphones off their heads. It was repeatable and always in the same spot-that is relating to a set 'IN' point. I noted that it was always ~2 seconds into play after my 'IN' point. I noted what time it was happening in the song and then set a new 'IN' point later in the song. I went back to the original 'pop' location and it was gone, but... it was now ~2 seconds after the new 'IN' point.

So far I have only noticed this issue when using phantom power, so there may be a connection with that. 'IN' points don't seem to cause the pop without phantom power. I have yet to try an external phantom power (we do not own one), but I would be very curious if anyone out there has tried bypassing the onboard phantom when using large diaghram mics and noticed the pops?

Unfortunately, this pop also recently blew the track 2 fader on the board. Track 2 will still record if I assign an input to it, but you can no longer monitor playback, the fader is dead. My belief is that something is faulty with phantom power and somehow feeding into the board. I've tried 3 or 4 mics and they all do it. I'm very concerned at this point using the onboard phantom power for the mics because of this blown fader, I worry that it could blow a mic, but I'm not an electrical guy so maybe that's not possible?

It's important to note that I do not use the DP24 for mixdown/mastering, I export the 24bit waves and bring them to my post facility with Logic Pro 9. I have never heard a click or pop on any export files. Just at the DP24, it's in the meter of the track that is record enabled at that time, but doesn't get printed. In my case any way.

I do usually use an onboard compressor when tracking so, I'd have to test recording without one to know if thats a possible issue.

I have discovered a couple temporary fixes though. They work for my machine anyway, hopefully they may help some of you:

1. Save the song, re-boot the machine, no more pops. It clears them out somehow.

then...

2. Avoid setting markers, which sucks of course, but... I have never heard a pop when there is no marker set.

I'm not super techy so I don't really know what's going on inside the DP24 however, I recorded for about 10 years with a 2488 MKI, in 24/44.1 and never had an issue. So at one point in time Tascam had 24 bit recording down. Possibly the i/o was better because that old machine had a hard drive? I'm not a fan of SD's. Even though I now have 4 more mic pre's, I still like my 2488 better, it was a way more stable machine all around.

I don't know the exact spec of the SD cards we have, I know we have Sandisk 32GB cards, and some others, but, I will say, this 'pop' issue happened with the OEM SD card that Tascam shipped with the unit, so, I'd say poo poo to their excuses of it being the SD cards, unless while they're saying that they're admitting that the cards they shipped with their units are faulty.

I have heard the pop whether I have a mac connected or not. We have yet to try re-formatting the SD cards, so we will try that, although it doesn't sound promising based on previous posts. Firmware is up to date.

Hopefully Tascam will do something, but unfortunately, I have to say I have no faith that they will.

Looking forward to hearing what Roundhill's experience is with sending the unit back to Tascam.

Good luck all.

 

[Sam Trenholme]

To add to the discussion, I don't use phantom power and had the issue. I heard glitching right after fast forwarding and rewinding (steps to reproduce: 1) Have a complex 24-bit song with punchins; 4) use the fast forward/rewind buttons to move in the song 3) Play the song.), and the pops around punch in points.

I haven't had a single pop since downgrading to 16/44.1.

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

I concur with Sam regarding phantom power which I never used and click came about only when recording in 24bit/44.1 /48k mode. After all the discussions on this matter; I still wait to hear what Tascam has done with Roundhill's DP24 and wait to hear the technical solution to the pop/click fix. I am glad I did not experience the blowout breakdown of the track failure described above by Lougrandview. Things look dismal for Tascam fixed because they have discontinued the DP's but hopefully they will come around to consider all the great legacy of their customers who have use their products for capturing/mixing the arts of productions.

 

[Roundhill]

I received my DP-24 after five weeks at the TASCAM repair center. They said they replaced the power PCB gather bottom (power processing board). Unfortunately I can't verify that it solved the issue because when they replaced this, the existing power supply that came with the unit no longer fits. So now I am patiently waiting for them to ship me a power supply that will fit. Arrrgh! As for the cost of this fix I don't know because my unit was under Sweetwater warranty so all I paid was shipping. I will keep you all posted when I can verify that this fixed the issue. I do still believe this is a design flaw and they used a cheap processing board to cut costs and TASCAM should replace them free of charge. I also hope future units don't have this problem. I love the porta- studio and unless you buy used, TASCAM is the only option anymore and I dread the day I have to use a computer and mouse to record.

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

Roundhill, I wish someone could detail what the PCB does? It seems like its the CPU chip. Did Tascam offer any detail on why pop/click occurs? Is replacing the PCB easy to do? I look forward to hearing if the pop/click is fixed when you get the power supply to test your DP24.

 

[Roundhill]

Dennis,

I wish I could answer your questions but TASCAM gave no explanation. Maybe someone who knows about PCB boards could chime in. My guess is that what they replaced (the power processing board) was not up to the task of handling 24 bit recording with multiple locate points and because of this pops occur. As others have noted – it does not happen recording at 16 bit. I find it odd that users on this forum (who do not have this issue and record at 24 bit) have not shared that their unit works. Not one. And I bet when TASCAM does its quality control on these machines, 24 bit recording is not used – the demo recording provided with the unit is recorded at 16 bit. When I receive the correct power supply I will let everyone know if the fix works.

 

[joslenior]

Just the name of the pcb (the power processing board) isn't enough information to get an idea of what it does. Could be the processor, could be the power circuit. Without more information from Tascam this won't be clear.
Regarding the pops and clicks:
- has this problem been there from the beginning or did it start over time
- does it happen with 16g cards also
- has anyone tried class 6 cards
- is there any hint if it started after a firmware update
- is there a relation with the sort of music (high dynamics may have influence on the internal power circuitry)
- has anyone tried professional sd cards (these cards use single level memory cells for their housekeeping and are capable of faster card management)
- is the problem also present with a single punch-in

Can anyone confirm their unit works without problems using 24 bit?

I know these are a lot of questions, but if we cannot get an overview there is now way of getting Tascam of their asses.

Grtz,

Jos

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

Joslenior, I have used the Extreme SD 32GB card with 95MB read/write. From all my testing I have found the pop/clicks only appear when recording at 24bit/44.1 on the DP24; pop/clicks do not appear when recording in 16bit/44.1/48k no matter what card is used. I do note that I inputted 24bit WAV files from another device for mixing on the DP24 the pop/clicks appeared once/twice but not as chronic when I record in 24bit on the DP24. I own two DP24's the pops/clicks seemed to begin within two months of ownership-that is also when I understood what those pops/clicks were; I previously thought they were over modulation or distortions from levels being too high. So I do want to know the root of the solution too.

 

[Roundhill]

I know these are a lot of questions, but if we cannot get an overview there is now way of getting Tascam of their asses.

Agreed and sorry I can't provide any answers. If anyone would like to contact TASCAM and try to get further information, my work order number was 86992, tech service manager is Simon. From my experience with dealing with TASCAM, it seems they don't care about these machines anymore, and I can say nothing positive about their customer service.

 

[joslenior]

Would be nice if we could get some more information from other users as well. I will try to get some insight and/or answers from Tascam Germany or the Dutch repair company. Maybe Tascam has abandoned the DP-24, but the DP-32SD is still a valid product and according to other users the pop and click problem lives there too.

 

[eric_the_b]

I have spent the last 3 days recording in 24 bit without snap crackle or pops!! I changed the depth to 48khz and hey presto!! This was on a 32 non sd version. My own sd version is at tascam. Let me know if this cured the 32 sd.

 

[joslenior]

Eric,

Hopefull news. Are there any other changes since recording with pops? Different sd card maybe? I don't expect the DP32 to be very different from the 32SD.
Thanks,

Jos

 

[Roundhill]

I have tested the repaired DP-24 (they replaced the power PCB gather bottom) and I no longer have pops or clicks. Was recording at 24bit/44.1kHz.

This is good news for those who have this issue, as there is a solution. As for the cost I don't know as mine was under Sweetwater warranty.

Thanks for your patience and good luck!

 

[Dennis FMRJE]

That's great Roundhill, just for clarity for the description you wrote "power PCB gather bottom" not sure there is a typo in the phrase of "gather bottom"; is there a definition for power PCB? Thanks I will investigate on getting my DP's fixed.