Standalone Hardware Recording vs: DAW/Software Recording

[-mjk-]

The most recent song added (Althea cover) was done on DP24.

The rest on a Model 12 or 16 and then to a DAW.

J, where is this? Your website won't load for me, and I don't see it on SC.

 

[Brett Peter Linn]

There's an "n" missing from the "known" in the link J sent. Try "www.hometownunknown.com". Haven't had a chance to listen yet, but will later today.

Also, thanks for the advice -- I'm new to forums. If the moderator doesn't move my thread, is that something I can do from my end? My DP24 is on backorder right now, but I have had such success just with the DP-008EX that I am looking forward to using the 24-track as a standalone. Thanks again.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Sorry about the typo! Fixed the OP.

If you are in USA, the price just went back to $499. Try Reverb.com, I see a few DP units there for sale that look pretty good for around $400 with domestic shipping. I have had good luck with Reverb purchases.

If you go that route, get a good *approved* SD card 32Gig or less, reset the machine and download the latest firmware. And watch every Phil Tipping video (for me twice!)

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

@MJK wow I really appreciate that offer! I am honored. I’ll tell the band, they will be so stoked.

I’m not sure what we have laid down is really worthy yet in terms of raw musicianship and track quality. We are still progressing as a band as well. Everything is tracked live exept sometimes the vocals are retakes.

But by all means do have a listen to the website and pick a song you think you would enjoy and has the most potential? I will send you the all the stems.

Also I have one new original song dropping later today on the website. It’s called Heavy Dreamer. I am mastering now on the DP24.

My own self assessment is that so far, unfortunately, it seems to that few of our covers (Eyes, Althea) are what end up sounding better than our originals. I could speculate as to why that may be, but mostly the answer comes back to perhaps a bit of red light syndrome on the originals and overall need to “just keep workin at it fellas”.

 

[-mjk-]

There's an "n" missing from the "known" in the link J sent. Try "www.hometownunknown.com"/QUOTE]

Oh, duh. Thanks.

 

[-mjk-]

@JSchmo_Bass will do. I'll give the tunes a listen. You can always just tell me which one you you would like me to mix.

You may be you lack experience and thus confidence in your own compositions to approach them like you do the covers. After all, there is a version you can refer to with the covers - the original. I'm a big advocate of doing pre-production recordings. With the pre-pros you are free to just do whatever you want and there is no pressure to make anything perfect. Bands usually learn a lot from those kinds of sessions. After playing it over and over, you will find the things that you love and the things that annoy you. When it comes time to lay down the real tracks you'll know exactly what you want to do because you will have the benefit of those reference tracks.

 

[-mjk-]

For this who have used the DP-24SD both as a standalone recorder/mixer, and have also transferred WAV tracks to DAW, do you have an opinion as to whether DP-24SD is truly capable of creating radio-ready mixes without relying on DAW? I do relatively straightforward singer/songwriter stuff without a lot of special effects etc., and will probably master using an online service (CloudBounce).

Hi @Brett Peter Linn and welcome to the Tascam Forums. That certainly is a loaded question because those things are just tools. Honestly, the limitation is not really in the hardware but the ability of the engineer. If you're asking me, personally, could I do a release-ready Mix and Master with the DP-32 only, I would say that depending upon the complexity of the tracks, I could. But I have all those decades of doing 24 track analog sessions to draw from. Could the average person do that? I would say not any more or less than they could using a DAW, and for the same reason - lack of recording engineering experience.

I think you should be able to handle what you want to do with the DP-24SD and quite easily. However, I would advise against using an online Mastering service. Several of us here on the Forum would do a much better and personalized job on the Mastering for you, which is considerably more important that most home recordists realize.

We're looking forward to hearing what you will do with the machine!

 

[Mark Richards]

For this who have used the DP-24SD both as a standalone recorder/mixer, and have also transferred WAV tracks to DAW, do you have an opinion as to whether DP-24SD is truly capable of creating radio-ready mixes without relying on DAW? I will probably master using an online service (CloudBounce).

I made a little experiment.

This is my cover of The Sound of Silence, recorded a few years ago.

The start of the song up to 1:23:32 was tracked, mixed, and mastered on my DP-24. From 1:23:32 until the end was tracked and mixed on my DP-24, and mastered using the Finalizer software program (I didn't use the de-esser when I tracked the vocals; and could have corrected that using Finalizer, but chose not to for comparison purposes).

I recommend downloading rather than listening from Dropbox. Dropbox kills the high fidelity.

On my reference system, there's a noticable difference between the two masters. My guess is that the majority of listeners using consumer audio reproduction systems most likely wouldn't hear much of a difference.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Super cool and very instructional Mark.

I hear it ...

Streaming from dropbox thru IPhone to my pedestrian Sony consumer Bluetooth headphones the difference is hard to hear BUT it’s there. If pressed, I actually like the DP24 mix a little better as the parts were more distinct. The Finalizer section was less just a hint muddy in the lower mids.

Downloading and playing the WAV file thru to BeyerDynamic 990’s, the difference is more obvious and I definitely prefer the more “glued together” and warmer consistent sound of the Finalizer. The DP24 section sounds a little harsh in comparison.

Hey - separately did the bass tighten up a hair at about 1:10 (“ten thousand people ...”)? On blind listen I thought that was the cutover at first...

 

[Brett Peter Linn]

Wow. Thanks so much for the input -- you two are way ahead of me in the production process. My DP24 should arrive by the end of the month and I'll get to work. For now, I plan to initially mix and master completely in the box, using drum tracks created by EZ drummer and processing my Rode NT-1A through a Mic Mechanic pitch corrector. I do have a CloudBounce account for mastering, and I'll compare doing the whole process in the box with using the online algorithm. I think this forum may prove to be more instructive than all the paid online lessons. Thanks again.

 

[Mark Richards]

...Downloading and playing the WAV file thru to BeyerDynamic 990’s, the difference is more obvious and I definitely prefer the more “glued together” and warmer consistent sound of the Finalizer. The DP24 section sounds a little harsh in comparison.

J, going in a different direction for a moment:
What you're hearing is a random function of the frequency response of your DT 990 cans, which have a slight "smiley face" curve (see links to charts below ).

This is only a very minor concern, but even so it can influence how a recording is mixed, and how other recordings sound when auditioned.

When mixing, unless you're aware of how this headphone's frequency response impacts the mix, there would be a tendency to undermix the low end fundamentals by about 3 dB, which of course also impacts the harmonics.

Conversely, when auditioning previously recorded material, it tends to emphasize randomly in minor ways the various segments of the low end and harmonics, depending on the complexity of the audio frequencies at any given point in the recording.

That's why it's always a good idea when possible/feasible/affordable to mix and master using good speakers augmented by good headphones; and also to use different headphones and speakers for each process.

But as long as you're aware of how individual speakers and headphones affect the sound, you can compensate for it.

Frequency Response DT 990 Pro
verses
Frequency Response DT 880 Pro

Note

Some high end boost (typically in the 3kHz-6kHz range of the spectrum) is normal for high quality headphones (has to do with ear coupling issues - beyond the scope of this forum) and actually translates to the human ear as a neutral to slightly bright high end depending where it occurs and how much boost it has.

Anything beyond 10k is meaningless in headphone measurements (having to do with inability of test gear to obtain accurate measurements, again due to ear coupling issues).
​

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Geez I had no idea. These were my first “real” headphones. The 880’s are much flatter! I only got the 990’s on review and because they are open back (more comfortable, and can hear if my kids are melting down in the other room).

I gotta save up for some good monitors.

 

[Mark Richards]

Hey - separately did the bass tighten up a hair at about 1:10 (“ten thousand people ...”)? On blind listen I thought that was the cutover at first...

Don't recall anything specific, but a minor change in EQ might have impacted the harmonics of the bass.

Geez I had no idea. These were my first “real” headphones. The 880’s are much flatter!...

From a practical perspective, the differences between the 990 and 880 are minor. You just need to be aware of them.

That you picked up on that very subtle change in the bass shows how good the DT990 is.

Also keep in mind that headphones, no matter the cost, all have pros and cons across the audio spectrum.

 

[himmelhorse]

Hello all,
I know this is completely inappropriate but...
I am a new member (just signed up 10 minutes ago) Living in Western Australia.
My sole purpose for joining was to get some info but there is much to peruse so it will become a multipurpose project LOL
I have just bought a Tascam BR-20 and I love it but I do have a small problem.
Can somebody please direct me to the right place to submit a query regarding this problem.
Regards
Tony

 

[BazzBass]

@himmelhorse try here TASCAM Analog Forum | TASCAM Forums

and welcome fellow Aussie

 

[himmelhorse]

Hello BazzBass,
Great to get a response and so quickly too.
Mate, briefly, my problem is that on my Tascam BR-20 I can record and it shows good signal on the VU meter both sides. On playback I get good VU signal on the left and nothing on the right and no sound from the right either.
I have pre-recorded tapes from an Akai GX1900D (soon to be replaced with an Akai GX400D) which play back normally and the VU signal both sides is good.
I have cleaned with alcohol all the heads and parts that contact the tape, lubricated the capstan drive which had dried up but not really affecting the sound quality as yet.
I have replaced the output cables to the amplifier using balanced cables in lieu of the RCA standards.
I have had advice that the problem is 100 percent the tape (age and quality) but I dispute this on the grounds that I have now played 4 pre-recorded tapes with no problems. I have recorded over the top of two of them and each one of them has the right channel missing during playback despite a good VU signal during record.
If you cannot possibly give me some advice, can you please direct me to the correct sub forum in which to get this help.
What part of Oz are you in? I am (temporarily due to Covid19) in Manjimup Western Australia, but normally live in a place called Blitar in East Java Indonesia. I am an aged pensioner and 21 year RAAF veteran.
Regards
Tony

 

[BazzBass]

this is the link TASCAM Analog Forum | TASCAM Forums

 

[himmelhorse]

BazzBass
Many thanks for your response and the referral.
I have just found the problem all my byself. I love that expression LOL
I suspected initially, dirty heads and cleaned them very thoroughly. No solution so I thought that it may have been misaligned heads and checked it out with a powerful torch. Heads looked brilliant (nearly new and no signs of wear.)
I did notice however, that the left tension (?) arm which lifts the tape off the heads when in rewind and fast forward, was slightly lower than the right one. I then proceeded to take the tape off and lifted/lowered the tension arm approximately 322 and a half times which loosened it up considerably. I did the same with the right arm and then played a previously defective tape and it was beautiful to hear both the right and left channels, as per normal.
I thank you again for taking the time to point me in the right direction.
Enjoy what is left of the weekend mate.
Regards
Tony

 

[BazzBass]

"lowered the tension arm approximately 322 and a half times"

that made me laugh out loud , glad you sorted it out, well done !

 

[-mjk-]

This just became available today:

[Edit: this video was just released - the software is still in development but the proof of concept is successful]

Patrick has done it again!