SD card buying hints

[-mjk-]

The quicky, COMPLETELY unscientific/casual experiment with the cheap-o SD card only proved to me that the DP WILL function just fine with a less-than-ideal, not-Tascam-approved card...even if a bit slower, which I hate (I wanna keep going, not wait for my card to finish writing!).

I'm so glad that @Mark Richards has pointed out the danger of this quote being read by someone and misinterpreted as being canon. Sorry but this just is not true. The DP will NOT function "just fine" with a not-Tascam approved SD card because of the potential that it may eventually fail. Depending upon how a person uses the DP it may never happen, or it may happen within a matter of days.

I myself chose the fastest SD card I could find, reasoning that because it was fast, it must be better. Several days of lost work convinced me otherwise. I hit that wall pretty fast because I am a punch-in Beast Runner.

Seriously, if file transfer speed is that important you should be putting the card in a card reader that is on the PCI bus.

It seems like 92% of what's available these days is MicroSD cards, which have to go in an adapter to be put in the DP...I'd rather use the correct card (full size SD).
Maaaaaybe I'll buy a batch of "normal" (UHS-I, 100Mb/sec) SanDisk Extreme Pro 32GB's...they go for US$12-15, whereas the UHS-II's are more like US$60!!!

FWIW, some have reported that Tascam supplied micro SD cards in adaptors with new digital Portastudios. I honestly believe that the form factor has no bearing on performance in this case.

 

[BazzBass]

@-mjk- Yes I can confirm mine came with a micro sd card, 4Gb , which is why I didn't immediately know it wasn't 32Gb lol. Only the micro had any capacity written on it.

I actually think micro sd cards are a bit safer in that if the adaptor's contacts become damaged, and they are the only ones that are ever used when switching between the DP and a PC, then you just put the micro card into a new adaptor.

 

[-mjk-]

I actually think micro sd cards are a bit safer in that if the adaptor's contacts become damaged, and they are the only ones that are ever used when switching between the DP and a PC, then you just put the micro card into a new adaptor.

Since all connectors have a mating cycle life, that is a valid contention.

 

[shredd]

Well…I’ll consider myself schooled.

In discussing my SD experiment…I hadn’t considered that someday, someone might read that one sentence and take it as gospel.
I guess I assumed that everyone who uses any Tascam SD-based gear knows that the gospel is actually “use Tascam-approved SD cards. PERIOD.”

I know dang well that the cheepie/generic ones are NOT to be relied on. That’s why I have my expensive, superfast SanDisk ones…and STILL am aware enough of the “no guarantees” nature of them, that I back up my work regularly, without fail.
But: point taken - I don’t want someone thinking that krapey SD cards are “fine” - or to overlook the importance of backups!!!

I stand corrected.

 

[-mjk-]

Thanks @shredd.

 

[-mjk-]

@-mjk- Yes I can confirm mine came with a micro sd card, 4Gb , which is why I didn't immediately know it wasn't 32Gb lol. Only the micro had any capacity written on it.

I actually think micro sd cards are a bit safer in that if the adaptor's contacts become damaged, and they are the only ones that are ever used when switching between the DP and a PC, then you just put the micro card into a new adaptor.

The original ads for the DP-32 said that it included a 2GB card to "get you started." Now, they can't find 2GB cards anymore so they've been supplying 4GB micro SD cards. At some point they'll be supplying 16GB cards, I expect.

 

[shredd]

The original ads for the DP-32 said that it included a 2GB card to "get you started." Now, they can't find 2GB cards anymore so they've been supplying 4GB micro SD cards. At some point they'll be supplying 16GB cards, I expect.

Natural Progression, I suppose…price goes down, consumer demand for recording space goes up, and of course the competitive nature of marketing… any company would, of course, be happy to proclaim that their gear now comes supplied with 4 GB, not 2, etc etc…

But in my time using various card forms (SD & CF) and even USB flash drives, I’ve found the very same dynamic.
There was a time where I had a bag full of 32MB CF cards, for my Digitech GNX4. And I still have 32MB USB thumb drives!!!
Nowadays, the smallest USB drives I’ve purchased lately are 32GB…from a place offering ones up to 512GB…

 

[Phil Tipping]

Given the size of a blank song is 11MB, maybe it's not worth trying these then?

 

[Felonious Punk]

I always like to point out that Tascam sends out cards for promotional purposes that ARE NOT on their own approved list.

FP

 

[shredd]

Given the size of a blank song is 11MB, maybe it's not worth trying these then?

Hi @Phil Tipping !
Actually, the small-size SD’s are a very practical/economical solution to certain needs - for example: keeping recordings on separate cards (a gig, a specific recording session, different bands/personnel, a specific project)…
The difference is that - besides the best-case convention/preference to stick to “Tascam-approved” cards, for optimal reliability…finding small-capacity cards (particularly sub-1GB) is getting harder!!
Good example - my recent “experiment” - a generic 2GB SD did in fact work/perform well enough…but as has been pointed out, probably would not offer the reliability that a high-quality (“approved”) card would…and no one wants to lose their work to such a trivial technical glitch. At any price point!!

 

[Booth Tarkington]

The original ads for the DP-32 said that it included a 2GB card to "get you started." Now, they can't find 2GB cards anymore so they've been supplying 4GB micro SD cards. At some point they'll be supplying 16GB cards, I expect.

FWIW, my DP-24SD came with a 4GB micro SD card in November of 2016.

According to the DP's screen, this provides over 12 minutes of recording time -- which drops in half once a track is armed to record. Two tracks reduces it another minute or so. Three tracks, you're down to four minutes.

I found this out when I wanted to transfer a song from 4-track cassette master (to augment with more tracks), and figured 4GB would be enough. But that song runs 4:15

 

[Booth Tarkington]

Meanwhile: I came here after getting only vague opinions elsewhere (including my Sweetwater sales engineer), so thanks very much for all the discussion.

 

[Booth Tarkington]

Hi @Phil Tipping !
Actually, the small-size SD’s are a very practical/economical solution to certain needs

I must be doing something wrong then, because the 4GB 'starter' card provides only six minutes of recording time -- if I use only one track -- and loses a minute or so of duration for every additional track armed. So unless you have really short songs, or no multi-tracking, I can't see how or why anyone could use a smaller card ....

And now I'm kinda questioning the design of a 21st-century machine which offers 24/32 tracks, but cannot reliably use a card of more than 32GB (?!?!?!?) - and whose sole purpose is to be a standalone recorder, but actually needs the song data to be offloaded to a computer and reloaded to avoid glitching on punch-ins and edits --???

LOL - Why did I buy this machine, exactly? -- I mean: I've already got it, so I'm going to use it, but I'm starting to see why someone might instead recommend using a DAW

 

[shredd]

Yikes.
The "DAW vs hardware" argument makes the Ukraine war look like a toddler's backyard tea party!!!

 

[Mark Richards]

...a 21st-century machine which offers 24/32 tracks, but cannot reliably use a card of more than 32GB (?!?!?!?)

@Booth Tarkington, I've been using my DP-24 since 2013 with SanDisk 32gb cards and have never run out of space on any individual card. Some of my complex projects run to about 1.5 gb per song folder; but a basic session should be much less. One card I pulled at random has 47 projects on it; avg size 500-600mb; most with 24 tracks + virtual tracks.

...whose sole purpose is to be a standalone recorder, but actually needs the song data to be offloaded to a computer and reloaded to avoid glitching on punch-ins and edits...

Not True.
I do some pretty intensive things on with my DP-24 (see the sample track sheet in my signature) and I've never had to offload/reload the tracks while tracking/overdubbing/editing (but it is a good maintenance practice for completed projects).

I happen to use a hybrid system for mixing and mastering client projects; but I stay within the DP-24 for all tracking and overdubs when I'm going full-digital, with zero latency issues. I also stay completely within the DP-24 for many of my own projects, with audiophile hi-def quality using only the DP-24 if I so choose.

If you haven't yet done so, may I suggest a tour of the "Production Tips" and "Equipment Related Tips" sticky threads.

 

[shredd]

have never run out of space

I’mma gonna haveta go w @Mark Richards on this…

I do 95% of my work on projects I have loaded on ONE card.
I have a small handful of Tascam-approved SD’s (32GB SanDisk Extreme Pro’s)…ANY of which contains PILES of projects-in-progress, 'finished' stuff, etc.

Though I admittedly tend to keep my track count low, I can’t say I’ve EVER had a project go over 1GB, even w V/Trax, multiple tracks of vox harmonies or KB layers, whut-eva.
I think the most elaborate instrumental project I did recently max’d out at about 700-750MB, before I cleaned out all the junque and crapp takes. In fact, most of my basic projects - a few trax of acoustic git’r, some vox layers, maybe a drum track or some KB touches - tend to hover in the 3-400MB range, BEFORE 'clean-up'.
I’m pretty diligent about “housekeeping”, to keep my cards from getting junked up, and minimizing my DP’s need to keep track of a 1000 “zz” scraps per project.

Really, the only reason even NEED multiple cards is to keep my projects sorted out in categories ("works in progress", "planned projects", "storage (for future work)", "finished", "mixing practice", and so on).

 

[-mjk-]

I've been using my DP-24 since 2013 with SanDisk 32gb cards and have never run out of space

This. The 32 GB card holds quite a bit of data, enough songs for an album. And the card can be backed up or multiple cards used. But yeah, it won't work with a 512 GB card. On a DP machine that would be a lifetime of songs and probably a lifetime of not backing up for most people.

but actually needs the song data to be offloaded to a computer and reloaded to avoid glitching on punch-ins and edits --???

This is a valid point. The DP machines can start glitching and the best way to solve that is with a total export/import of the files into a new song. That can be frustrating.

I'm starting to see why someone might instead recommend using a DAW

Certainly. Some do end up going to software recording solutions. Feel free to join the debate here.

Edit: spelling

 

[Phil Tipping]

I must be doing something wrong then, because the 4GB 'starter' card provides only six minutes of recording time

This doesn't sound right at all. Video 8A shows how to calculate the time required for 1 mono track - skip to about 17mins for a full explanation. In summary, at the the highest quality setting (24bit 48KHz) it needs approx 8.5MB per minute per mono track. This means a 4GB card can hold about 8 hours of mono recordings.
Are you sure the card is empty and that you're correctly interpreting the 'time remaining' value shown at the top of the home screen? It's in the format hh:mm and not mm:ss

...needs the song data to be offloaded to a computer and reloaded to avoid glitching on punch-ins and edits

This is not strictly true, although as the others have said, it's strongly recommended to use a computer for backup purposes. The export/import process for defragmenting tracks can be used without a computer, albeit at the expense of using more space on the card. The other glitch prevention function 'delete unused' can also be done without needing a computer.

 

[Booth Tarkington]

@Booth Tarkington, I've been using my DP-24 since 2013 with SanDisk 32gb cards and have never run out of space on any individual card. Some of my complex projects run to about 1.5 gb per song folder; but a basic session should be much less. One card I pulled at random has 47 projects on it; avg size 500-600mb; most with 24 tracks + virtual tracks.


Not True.
I do some pretty intensive things on with my DP-24 (see the sample track sheet in my signature) and I've never had to offload/reload the tracks while tracking/overdubbing/editing (but it is a good maintenance practice for completed projects).

I happen to use a hybrid system for mixing and mastering client projects; but I stay within the DP-24 for all tracking and overdubs when I'm going full-digital, with zero latency issues. I also stay completely within the DP-24 for many of my own projects, with audiophile hi-def quality using only the DP-24 if I so choose.

If you haven't yet done so, may I suggest a tour of the "Production Tips" and "Equipment Related Tips" sticky threads.

Ah very good. I appreciate *all* the comments and suggestions made here, not just Mark's, but haven't figured out all the ins and outs of multi-comment response. Perhaps like an old hard drive, my brain is getting more fragmented and doesn't rewrite new data as well as it used to.

I will indeed check out the Production and Equipment threads, assuming I find them.

@shredd: I can see the value of having smaller cards to keep things separate or categorized. I could even see dedicating (smaller) cards to individual songs, as I've lately been getting compositionally very ambitious -- which is why time limitations were such a serious concern.

@-mjk-: thanks, noted

@Phil Tipping: thanks, and yes I was misunderstanding the remaining time as mm:ss. I owe you a pint, should you ever come to Seattle ...

come to think of it, that offer is good for everyone. Those accustomed to British weather should feel right at home here in the Pacific Northwest

 

[shredd]

@Booth Tarkington - check out the Production and Equipment threads, assuming I find them.

They’re “pinned”/“sticky threads” that remain displayed at the top of this category…they're invaluable, in particular 'cuz they're written by smart guyz who actually own/use these units, not some re-tasked Tascam-plant janitor who learned English from a box of Froot Loops and knows as much about recording gear as a politician knows about integrity.