Model 12 tempo issue with Apple devices?

[Sh33va]

Dear friends,

I own a Model 12 and I`m using it with a DAW-like application "Loopy Pro" that`s running on an Apple device (iPhone/iPad). The Model 12 is connected to the Apple device through an USB Hub (nothing else is connected).

I am experiencing a "Tempo issue" when connecting the Model 12 to the iPad. If I connect Model 12 while the application is running, the tempo in the application gets distorted moving back and forth instead of progressing normally. Short video of the issue is demonstrated here:

I have researched extensively on the Loopy Pro Forums and with their technicians, and it seems a few other people also experience similar Tempo problem with the Model 12, but for most people it works fine with it.

I have personally tested this also with 3 different mixers (Allen and Health, Mackie...) and none of them are causing this issue. Furthermore I have tested this with 2 different Model 12 products... And both did cause the same problem. Strangest of all I tried this with cca ten different Apple devices and on 3 it worked without issues but on 7 the connection was causing the tempo issue. I couldn`t find any relation between those where it worked with/without issues.

Issue did not occur on: an old iPhone 6S and two iPhone 15 Pros.
Issue did occur on: iPhone 8, 2x iPhone 13, iPhone XS, iPhone 13 Pro Max, iPad Mini 2022, iPad 10th Gen.

I tried changing all the settings I could think of on the Model 12 including disabling all MIDI etc. but nothing seems to help

I was wondering is there anyone here that could help? Is the Model 12 known to cause any tempo/sync instability with DAW or Apple devices? Maybe there is some setting that I`m missing? I am running firmware 1.42 0099.


Any advice will be VERY appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Max Relic]

@Sh33va, welcome to the forum. How are you connecting the Model 12 to the Apple device (audio, USB, DIN MIDI, Bluetooth...) and for what purpose?
Please try to be as more specific as you can, details are relevant in troubleshooting.

 

[Sh33va]

@Max Relic, Thank you. I`ll try to be detailed.

The Apple device runs the application "Loopy Pro" which is a recording / performing application that can be used as a loop station, clip launcher, sequencer and DAW. It runs on iOS devices...

I use the Model 12 with Loopy Pro because I need to connect drums, piano, guitar and mics to the application and also need separate USB return channels (playing the loops back).

I use the application for live looping - meaning recording layers of loops of different instruments and then playing over the USB returning channels (playing back recorded loops). Some of my channels are set to "Direct" Mode (inputs) and the rest to "USB" (returns).

The way I connect the device is simple - iPad/iPhone connects directly to a USB Hub`s end. The Model 12 then connects to one of the USB Ports on that Hub. The Hub is also connected to a USB charger to keep the iPad charged (picture attached). The iPad/iPhone and the application both recognize the Mixer is connected and I can see all the channels and the name of the Model 12 in the application etc. It does work, as long as there isn`t any disturbance... like minimizing the application, switching to a different application, connecting any other gear (like MIDI keyboard) etc.... If such a thing occurs then the tempo gets messed up like in the video I posted above. The only way I can get it to work is if I connect everything upfront and then start the application. But that is very inconvenient because sometimes I need to switch between apps. And each time I do that the tempo gets distorted...

This is a video explaining in details what the application does exactly...

 

[Max Relic]

Then your use case is connecting the Model 12 as an audio interface.
As you probably know the Model 12 is a Class-compliant device, also called plug-and-play, and should work without the need of a software driver (at least on Apple and Android devices). It's able to send and receive audio and MIDI over USB, so you should be careful with the settings of the Model 12 and all the other devices which connects to it.
A quick look to the Loopy Pro manual made me think you should check if all the settings related to external clock and synchronization have been disabled; then on the Model 12 disable MIDI Timecode / Clock transmission. Let us know if these fix the issue.

P.s: The Model 12 is sensible to the quality and length of USB cables, and a lesser quality USB hub could introduce unpredictable effects. I guess you already know how to avoid bitrate and sampling rate mismatch so I didn't mention.

 

[Sh33va]

@Max Relic, Thank you for the tips.

1. USB cable used for connecting is the one that came with the mixer.
2. I tried three different USB hubs all with the same result. One of them was a USB-C and two the old usb type.
3. MIDI timecode and clock are both OFF on the mixer (tried different combinations of On/off) but it didn't help.
4. Loopy pro settings are also turned to off regarding MIDI clock. And also tried many different combinations, all had the same result.
5. Tried this with two different Model 12s both had the same behavior.

As said I talked to users with Model 12 and many of them have no issues with Loopy pro but some did experience the same as me. The ONLY way I can get it to work is by connecting everything upfront and then starting the application. Setting the phone to Airplane mode helps to avoid disturbances (like application pop-ups). But like I said any disturbance (minimizing, switching apps, connecting other MIDI devices etc) messes up the tempo even then

 

[Max Relic]

It's an odd issue, fortunately you already found a workaround. My not requested advice is to stick to the workflow that works for you.

 

[Sh33va]

@Max Relic, Yes, however I'm a professional musician and I really need something I can depend and rely on. And this happening in the middle of a gig is embarrassing...

Since the model 12 is class compliant this should not be happening. I thought maybe someone here might shed some light into this mystery because I am really clueless. Some Apple devices work without issues but the majority don't and this is just very veru frustrating after spending so much money

 

[Mark Richards]

The Model 12 is connected to the Apple device through an USB Hub (nothing else is connected)...I tried three different USB hubs all with the same result. One of them was a USB-C and two the old usb type.

@Sh33va, I don't own one of these mixers, but a word search of the Model 12 owner manual turned up this on page 25:
"59. USB port....see 'Connecting with a Computer' on page 65. ATTENTION The unit should be connected directly to the computer, not through a USB hub. Moreover, noise could be picked up if the cable is too long."

This seems to be a general caveat regardless of the intended purpose of the connection (data transfer or audio interface), so there may not be an easy solution.

Perhaps the best way to resolve the problem would be to contact TASCAM Support through the TASCAM website.

 

[Max Relic]

Yes, however I'm a professional musician and I really need something I can depend and rely on. And this happening in the middle of a gig is embarrassing...

As a pro you should know best how to prepare your equipment for a gig, i.e. I would make all the connections (and test all the setup) before the show starts. Anyway I would look into the app/Apple device for some overlooked settings, there is a chance the USB host (Apple hardware) is mishandling the Model 12.

 

[Sh33va]

@Sh33va, I don't own one of these mixers, but a word search of the Model 12 owner manual turned up this on page 25:
"59. USB port....see 'Connecting with a Computer' on page 65. ATTENTION The unit should be connected directly to the computer, not through a USB hub. Moreover, noise could be picked up if the cable is too long."

This seems to be a general caveat regardless of the intended purpose of the connection (data transfer or audio interface), so there may

@Mark Richards Thank you for the suggestion Mark. I wasn't aware of this restriction. Especially when I made the research before and many people had no issues with using a hub with the mixer. I will contact the support directly.

 

[Sh33va]

@Max Relic, Of course I'm doing that. And generally if I connect all up front it does work pretty well. But every now and then the disturbance occurs and I'd like to avoid it happening at all. There must be a reason why some devices work no problem and some don't. Perhaps looking into some Apple forums might shed more light into this. Thanks!

 

[jamminn]

hello - I joined to comment on this thread. I too am running loopy with a model 12. pretty much every time i load it up I get the symptoms of an audio mis-match. (no error messages on the model 12 though) loopy stutters and wont run audio stream properly.

to cure this I have found I need to kill off loopy pro, then reboot the model 12 (with it still plugged in) then fire up loopy again. from this point it works until i unplug.

However this scenario only happens with a usb hub plugged in. if you connect directly to ipad from model 12 it works fine.

its a huge bummer and on-stage workarounds are never fun. if anybody has any kind of idea for a fix it would be great. I have tried multiple hubs etc and all are of good quality but cant take them out of the equation because midi and controllers are needed.

 

[Mark Richards]

on-stage workarounds are never fun. if anybody has any kind of idea for a fix it would be great. I have tried multiple hubs etc and all are of good quality but cant take them out of the equation because midi and controllers are needed.

@jamminn, that's why I responded as I did in post #8. I don't think in the several years since the Model 12's introduction anyone has discovered an efficient solution to an unintended by design (or just unanticipated?) use of the mixer's USB interface. But if any members on this site by chance may have found an efficient workaround, a forum search might find it.

 

[jamminn]

Thanks for your reply.@mark . You say unintended but I wonder what the intended use is? I mean class compliant usb interface is just that. I am interested to just understand. I have other class compliant gear which doesn’t gripe in the same way.