What the heck are the returns in the INPUT routing (the 2nd line that many use as "inverted" input)

[rtteter]

I've had this machine for 6 months now. I don't really post anymore because I've pretty much figured it out.

But I decided I'm going to run my mixes through a 2 bus and I'm deciding what outputs I want to sacrifice.

WHY on earth in the input routing is there a "return" source? There isnt a return physical output so why the hell include that?

Or am I missing something? I'd love to use the 1/4 inputs under the XLR inputs as my return back out to the 2 bus. That doesn't work right?

 

[skier]

This is analogous to an analog mixer. The returns are for monitoring the output of the recorder, whether it be an actual multi-track tape recorder or a DAW. In this way, you can elect to mix in the DM rather than in the box.

You can route any internal signal to whatever output jacks that you have available.

 

[rtteter]

Yes yes thank you I know all of this.

Question is - why give us an option to route something as a return when there is no physical output with which to return?

I'm talking about the first 48 channels in the INPUT ROUTING section.

I do analog summing, and would LOVE to be able to output on all of the 24 M/L inputs. I have 2 8 channel analog cards in the mixer, but now I'm bumping up against the end of my analog outputs and I guess I'm going to have to get a 3rd card.

 

[skier]

Good! It was not clear by the wording of your question that you knew what the returns were for — glad that's not the issue.

Because this is a digital desk, I have to believe the designers expected that we'd keep the channels in the digital domain once we got them there, because the fewer A/D and D/A conversions we make, the cleaner and lower the noise in the signals. And analog processing adds noise as well as phase shifts (sometimes large shifts depending on your filter settings) if you use any analog EQ. If you're intent on summing in analog, then you need more outputs and there are several ways to get them.

You can get another IF-AN/DM card as you mention, but you can also use the ADAT interface to get another 16 inputs/outputs. You also have 24 channels of TDIF potential if you decide to use those interfaces instead. This is a wonderfully expandable desk for the price!

 

[Arjan P]

Question is - why give us an option to route something as a return when there is no physical output with which to return?

Because in a recording situation you can very easily flip the inputs (Mic/line) in groups of 8 to the return coming from the recorder (=DAW). That way the same channels are used with the same processing, EQ etc. The 'return' are the digital return channels from the digital recorder. Very handy!

 

[jamsire]

I have three analog cards and the FW card. Love the setup.

My question to you is - why made a snapshot where the routing now includes all 8 AUX sends for the additional outputs?

Just a supportive thought.

 

[salty james]

With the analog cards you can assign extra aux outputs (fed via the aux sends) out to external effects. I keep my Orban 111b and Pluto plate on 9/10, 11/12. This is for mixing, for tracking they become 4 headphone sends.

 

[OrangeMan]

Because in a recording situation you can very easily flip the inputs (Mic/line) in groups of 8 to the return coming from the recorder (=DAW). That way the same channels are used with the same processing, EQ etc. The 'return' are the digital return channels from the digital recorder. Very handy!

Sounds good, thanks for the info. But according to the manual, the return signal can not be processed by the EQ, Compressor and so on (Chapter 4 first page). So it seems they can't really be used to mix in the console.

Edit: I guess it's like this: when the source of input and return gets switched, the source of the return (for example slot 3) will become the source for the input and mic/line will become the source for return. So in that case I can now again use all my processors for the monitor signal.

So basically the returns are just placeholders for the sources that can be connected to the channel input.

 

[Arjan P]

Edit: I guess it's like this: when the source of input and return gets switched, the source of the return (for example slot 3) will become the source for the input and mic/line will become the source for return. So in that case I can now again use all my processors for the monitor signal.
So basically the returns are just placeholders for the sources that can be connected to the channel input.

Ehm, that's what I said - you can flip in groups of 8 to make the input under 'return' the actual input and vice versa. Like on traditional mixers.

But according to the manual, the return signal can not be processed by the EQ, Compressor and so on (Chapter 4 first page). So it seems they can't really be used to mix in the console.

You are right, but crucial about this setup (with flipping the inputs) is that you make the signal under 'return' the input - and by doing so they become "Channel 1-32 (input)".

Edit: Welcome by the way @OrangeMan I see it's your first post!

 

[OrangeMan]

Thanks!

Yes, my edit shows that I agree with you. But just to make it even more clear:

Is there way to connect the "channel returns" with an actual signal path in the console? I guess there isn't. You can not actually use the returns except as placeholders which enable this input source flip.

Another question: while recording we would normally want to listen to the post tape signal, so we use for example channel 1 to 8 to receive the mic signal and we send them to the tape via bus or direct out and then we return the tape signal to another 8 channels (for example channel 25 to 32) - we use these 8 more channels as monitor channels.

Why would you now want to switch the input source of channel 1 to 8 after the recording is done? The tape signals are already on our console - in channel 25 to 32.

 

[Arjan P]

Why would you now want to switch the input source of channel 1 to 8 after the recording is done? The tape signals are already on our console - in channel 25 to 32.

Yeah, there's no reason to do so unless you have a project with many tracks. I create a separate mixer scene for mixing if I have more than 16 channels in use for mixing. If I stay below 17 channels, I use layer 1 for inputs and layer 2 for DAW returns and I never have to flip channels.

 

[OrangeMan]

I see, thanks!

 

[Brian Martinez]

Because in a recording situation you can very easily flip the inputs (Mic/line) in groups of 8 to the return coming from the recorder (=DAW). That way the same channels are used with the same processing, EQ etc. The 'return' are the digital return channels from the digital recorder. Very handy!

is there a thread detailing how to do this?

 

[Nick C]

I have my returns from tape going to aux 1/2, which then is assigned to the stereo buss. i have it set up so i can use the fader to control level for send to tape, then i can hit fader flip and the fader controls the return level from tape. hope that made sense.