Singer/Songwriter Sessions

[mnkorte]

Hi all.

Long time Tascam user and first time poster here. I had a PD-24SD back in 2015 and it never really got a love of love, so I sold it. I regretted it for a long time and finally broke down and picked a Tascam DP-24 (midi) this month. As a DBA and system admin, I am really looking forward to taking my eyes off a computer in my spare time and get back to making music with my ears.

I have 4-5 acoustic singer/songwriter tunes I am looking to record, but I really want to plan out the process this time around and use more of a "Pro mix" mentality that I would typically do when working in a DAW. The songs will be fairly sparse: light drums with brushes, a few guitars and vocals. Here is my plan so far:

Tracks

1: Kick​

2: Overhead L
3: Overhead R
4: Bass
5: Guitar L
6: Guitar R
7: Guitar solo
8: Vox Lead
9: Vox harm low
10: Vox harm high
11: Piano (on some tunes)
12: Misc
13-14: Rhythm Bus (drums/bass)
15-16: Guitar Bus
17-18: Vox Bus
19-20: Misc Bus
21-22: - open -
23-24: reference track for mixing (Stripping Cane by Jeffery Foucault or something similar)

Tracking:​

External pres (Tascam M35 mixer), EQ and light compression on the way in. Get all tracks sounding as good as possible on the way in before mixing.

Mixing:​

External reverb: I would really like to use the internal reverb, but I like to roll off lows on my reverb buss (anything under 225-250hz) when working in a DAW and I haven’t found good way to do this without setting all of the sends to pre, dropping the faders and bouncing to a stereo bus. Then bringing the faders back up. Repeat each time I want to change the reverb. If you guys know of a better way let me know!

Delay (optional): a little slapback on the vocals using internal effects and setting the ms to match tempo. Something like 1/32 or 1/16 depending on the tune. Since I am doing sparse tracks, I might leave the delay out altogether and just have room reverb.

Buses: Once I finish the overall mix, my plan is to send each group of tracks to a stereo bus by going out of the Tascam hitting a compressor and then coming back in to glue each group together. I will do this for all groups to avoid the DAC latency. Doing four passes of this seems like it will be a bit time consuming, but I won’t really know until I dive in.

The caveat here is if I use an external reverb, the external sends will already be in use and will need a bounce to a stereo track before sending to a compressor to print the reverb. Is it worth it?

Final Mixdown:​

Bring all faders down except the Busses and record the final mixdown.

I might automate the mix by capturing the MMC code in Reaper so I can save my movements for later recall. I have done this a bit in Multitrack mode and it works great, but never in Mixdown mode so not sure if that's an option. Either way, its only four buses, so not a big deal if I forego this.

Mastering​

I may “cheat” and bring these into the DAW at this point. The goal is to have a cohesive sound on all songs. The 2 bus will likely have plugins like EQ, SSL bus compressor and some gentle tape saturation.

Has anyone tried mixing to busses like this in the DP-24/32? I would love to see how all of you have tackled this and if the juice is worth the squeeze I see lots of bounces in my future lol.

Thanks for reading this long post!

Marc
​

 

[Mark Richards]

@mnkorte, Welcome to the forum. Looks like you've put a lot of effort/thought into planning your board setup.

Re the internal reverb, I'd just bounce the 100% wet signal to a separate track (or tracks) and EQ the wet signal in the mixdown. Ways to be creative without needing to go outside the portastudio environment are available in the "Production Tips" sticky thread at the top of this forum.

You'll also find some interesting and creative production ideas in the "Rock and Roll/Recording 101" section of this site and the two sticky threads there (Mixing and Mastering).

When you have a finished product, be sure to share it in the "Song Writers and Engineers/Song Mixes: Tracks for review and critique" area of this site.

Have lots of fun using your ears instead of your eyes.

 

[-mjk-]

Welcome to the Tascam Forums!

Planning out a session is paramount to success. You've done a good job with the track layout. I love to see that.

I have a word of advice about the recording process itself. The Digital Portastudio workflow is all about track management during the recording, and I don't mean track layout. I mean the recording process must respect the limitations of the machine.

For example, on your track sheet, tracks 2/3, and 5/6 are stereo pairs of mono tracks. Down below you have 17/18 as "vocal bus" implying it's a submix (a good thing) but, on what mono tracks are you going to record them? You have taken up 4 very valuable mono tracks that you'll need for laying down the vocals. I see that you have tracks 8, 9 and 10 for vocals, but there is no provision for doubling up, or alternate takes, etc. (keep in mind that only 1 Virtual Track can be active no matter how many of them you use). I only want to point out that by using up the mono tracks you quickly run out of places to record mono sources (don't ask me how I know!)

Some light reading on the topic of workflow with these machines:

DP-24/32(SD) Production Tips

I have the line inputs of my DP-32 routed through a patchbay. I also have several line inputs on the Soundcraft Ghost on the patchbay, as well as several group outputs. The Ghost's control room monitoring system is connected to a monster power amp, and 2 vintage AR monitors that sound...

www.tascamforums.com

DP-24/32(SD) Production Tips

Get The Most Out Of Your DP Machine: Custom Songs Think of Songs as "projects" that allow you to record specific things on your DP machine for whatever purpose you need. Many think that you make a Song, and record all your tracks, then Mix, Master and that's all you can get. But a Song is...

www.tascamforums.com

Some of what you want to accomplish with external compression and EQ might well be accomplished in the machine using the Mastering capability as a processor:

DP-24/32(SD) Production Tips

PRODUCTION TIPS INDEX (v2021-06-17) ADDING ANALOG SOUND Adding Analog Sound When Tracking Adding Analog Characteristics To A Digital Master Recording CREATING SEPARATE EFFECTS TRACKS Using Effect/Reverb/Chorus/Delay Using Effect/Guitar Automatic Double Tracking Using Outboard Gear In...

www.tascamforums.com

By all means, please post your work!

 

[mnkorte]

Gents: Thank you for the warm welcome, insights, and links! I appreciate it and will take a look at everything over the week.

@Mark Richards Honestly, I might be overthinking it a bit. My goal is to simulate my DAW workflow on the DP-24, but I still want to work within the unit's limitations. The constraints should definitely spark some creativity, though! I’m planning to stick with the internal reverb—both the room and plate sound great for the style of music I’m working on. With that in mind, I might rework my track layout to make it all fit.

@-mjk- Here’s my current thinking for the "Mix Busses":

Rhythm Bus Example

• Kick - Track 1, panned center
• Overhead L - Track 2, panned at 9 o’clock
• Overhead R - Track 3, panned at 3 o’clock
• Bass - Track 4, panned center

Once I have a solid rough mix, I’ll send the stereo mix of these 4 tracks out to an external (or internal) compressor for some added “glue,” then bring it back in to record on stereo track 13/14. For vocals, I’ll send tracks 8-10 out and bring them back on stereo track 17/18. I’ll repeat this for other track groups, using my stereo tracks as mix buses, which should free up my original tracks for additional elements.

Good point on doubling vocals and virtual tracks—I’d totally forgotten, and it’s something I always do. Do you think it might be better to record the drum overheads on a stereo track to keep more mono tracks free? For the guitars, I’m planning separate mono takes for L and R, with panning. I should have called those gtr 1 and gtr 2 instead of L and R.

Hoping to set up the drums this weekend, get myself in gear, and finally press record so I can share some tracks for feedback. In the meantime, I have plenty to read and explore.

 

[-mjk-]

Do you think it might be better to record the drum overheads on a stereo track to keep more mono tracks free?

I do. Not only that, but anything that is an actual pair like a keyboard. But there is more to it.

Here is a basic methodology that I recommend (and use myself) for the DP machines:

Work from the mono tracks and submix to the stereo tracks.

For example:

Depending upon how you work, you could record all the drums on the mono tracks and do a perfect submix to a stereo pair. Then you could keep those drum tracks on the mono tracks and just load the next open Virtual Track to keep working. At any point you can go back and rework the submixes.

I normally put all of my guitars and vocals on VTs on the mono tracks but end up with full blown assemblies on the stereo tracks. But how I do that is also specialized for the DP.

I use Mixdown mode for making submixes. I have the full use of FX for that. I also will use the Mastering mode to tweak the EQ and compression. Mastering mode allows the only use of the multiband compressor on your tracks. So, I would record all the drums and then do a perfect mix (not bounce) of the drums only. Then I would run the mix though the Mastering process and add the SPANK factor (lol). When finished, I import the drum mix (through the Audio Depot) onto a stereo pair. At any time I can do that, again and again because the original tracks are still on machine. For other instruments I switch to the next VTs. I have a track sheet that I designed to keep track of the VTs because there are 8 of them pre track. So you can do a lot of different takes with different instruments and then make perfect submixes as you go along or anytime thereafter.

I also do Custom songs. I will import a rough mix of what I want for a headphone mix on a stereo pair, and then go nuts on the rest of the open tracks with guitar parts or vocals, with lots of layering. They all get individually submixed using Mixdown mode and then imported to the main Song project.

Once you wrap your head around the unique workflows of the DP machine, suddenly entirely new capabilities become obvious.

Edit: I forgot to address this:

I’ll repeat this for other track groups, using my stereo tracks as mix buses, which should free up my original tracks for additional elements.

Yes. That is exactly the right thinking. But remember, you don't have to free up storage tracks by erasing them, because there are Virtual Tracks.

That is a fundamental aspect of recording on a DP machine. You do not have to erase tracks to free them up. Just change to the next Virtual Track and use them over. That's why I say to work in the mono tracks and submix to the stereo tracks. But honestly, coming from the 2" world, I did not grasp that concept immediately. Most likely you are smarter than I and you got that right away, lol.

 

[mnkorte]

@-mjk- This is great, thanks!

I honestly hadn't given virtual tracks a thought at all. This adds lots of new ideas.

Side note: Attached is a DP-24 track sheet I started working on in preparations for this weekend. Let me know if any of you have any critiques. If it looks good, maybe we can add it to a new thread as a resource for others.

 

[shredd]

@mnkorte - consider searching the forum for "track sheet" - there's been some VERY good ones posted. Great for documenting detail/s, VT's, etc etc...

 

[mnkorte]

@shredd Thanks, I'll take a deeper dive today to see whats out there. I did search the other day but I didn't see anything specific to the DP-24, but I did see the ones that @-mjk- posted for the DP-32 which gave me the inspiration for the one I started working on.

 

[-mjk-]

@-mjk- This is great, thanks!

I honestly hadn't given virtual tracks a thought at all. This adds lots of new ideas.

Side note: Attached is a DP-24 track sheet I started working on in preparations for this weekend. Let me know if any of you have any critiques. If it looks good, maybe we can add it to a new thread as a resource for others.

I'm glad that the discussion was good for creativity. That's what is so great about the people on the Tascam Forums. Those Virtual Tracks are a powerful feature of the DP machines. It was a genius move to include them in the design. One could have entirely different versions of the same song, with multiple singers (and languages), instrumentalists and so forth all on VTs, without having to make space by erasing. And - if one really did run out of VT space (all 8 of them filled), it is possible to export them 1 x 1 and save those files for re-import later. Crazy!

I don't have any critiques for the track sheet, but you certainly are welcome to share it on the forum. As @shredd mentioned, there have been some pretty good ones shared and really, the more the merrier. We all look at what other's have done and put the ideas together.

 

[Mark Richards]

... anything specific to the DP-24...

EDIT
In my signature is a downloadable image of the project track sheet I've developed over the years using Excel. It also demonstrates bouncing, bus sub mixing and use of virtual tracks.

 

[shredd]

@shredd Thanks, I'll take a deeper dive today to see whats out there. I did search the other day but I didn't see anything specific to the DP-24, but I did see the ones that @-mjk- posted for the DP-32 which gave me the inspiration for the one I started working on.

IIRC, most of the posted ones are specific to whatever machine/DAW/setup the poster was using...but they're ALL full of good ideas and useful features...and some of them have been posted in PDF or other editable format, so you wouldn't even have to start from scratch.
But in any case- you can surely create the kind of track-sheet that serves your needs/aims. I can't live without them - I make one up even for super-simple projects. My last effort had a grand total of 5 tracks - but I still documented every detail...

EDIT: have put on one of my google drives a very basic sheet I use on simple projects, but has room for notes, VT notations, etc. It's in MSWord format; made it about 20 years ago, when I stepped up from bedroom tapes to a TASCAM 2488, and have occasionally modified it for use on whatever I'm working on (currently an O/G DP-32).
With the DP-32's insanely useful ability to turn any stereo pair into a mono track, I'd simply xxxxx-out the "second" track (for example, stereo track 9/10 would just become 9).
DOWNLOAD HERE

 

[-mjk-]

At some point, I am going to make a video about how I've completely replaced paper in my studio (and life in general) with e-ink: the Boox Note Air 3C. The 4C was just released and it looks like a monster.

 

[mnkorte]

@shredd this is perfect, thanks!

 

[mnkorte]

At some point, I am going to make a video about how I've completely replaced paper in my studio (and life in general) with e-ink: the Boox Note Air 3C. The 4C was just released and it looks like a monster.

@-mjk- I would love to see that. I have been pondering getting a Kindle Scribe or Kobo Elipsa

 

[shredd]

At some point, I am going to make a video about how I've completely replaced paper in my studio (and life in general) with e-ink: the Boox Note Air 3C. The 4C was just released and it looks like a monster I love to see this too.

@-mjk- I also would love to see that.

I particularly admire the brilliant move of putting *.PDF's of various gear manuals on it and being able to search the document for needed info. Super-Kewl.

As we all know (or SHOULD!) - 90+ percent of the time, a problem can be resolved by RTFM - even TASCAM manuals, which as often as not appear to be written by drunken felony parolees whose knowledge of the English language is limited to reading Hershey bar wrappers…

 

[-mjk-]

All of my User Manuals are on m e-ink tablet and I made hand written notes on them.

 

[-mjk-]

@-mjk- I would love to see that. I have been pondering getting a Kindle Scribe or Kobo Elipsa

Be sure to check out Boox and this YouTube channel. He tests them all. IMO the Boox devices are the top of the line.