Using unmatched pair of LDC Overheads

[baddestbrain]

Planning to do my first recording with the Model 12 tomorrow. Heavy rock stuff. I want to do a spaced pair of stereo drum overheads in addition to close micing kick and snare.

I have two AT2035's with shock mounts, however they are not a matched pair. They sound similar enough, but one is probably a few years older. Do you think this will create phase issues? I plan to use a tape measure and place them equidistant from both the kick and snare as a spaced pair. My access to the rehearsal space is limited so I won't be able to test before and I haven't been able to find a good answer online.

My other option would be ordering a matched pair of Rode M5's (without shock mounts) which would be about the same price as my two used AT 2035's, if anyone has opinions on those.

Thanks

 

[Phil Tipping]

My understanding is that phase issues are caused by different path lengths or different wiring inside the mic/cable, so I don't think this would be a problem in your case. There may be differences in frequency response and/or output levels, but this may or may not be detectable. Getting a 'matched pair' just means that someone has selected a pair from the batch with characteristics which are within some tolerance threshold, but you may just be lucky and your pair are close enough. I guess it depends how critical you are... the room and layout may make more difference than the mics themselves.

 

[shredd]

I think @Phil Tipping nailed it...I myself use a pair of SDC's by sE that I bought at separate times...I've used them interchangeably for MONO mic'ing (for git'r amp mic'ing, acoustic git'r, even my rain stick!!!), and they sound EXACTLY the same. And every time I've used them to do an X-Y thing on an acoustic git'r, I've been happy with the results.

That said: my hearing is so damaged that a crashing airplane could fall on my house and I wouldn't hear it...

 

[baddestbrain]

Thanks for the input, I am just going to go for it with the mismatched 2035's. Shredd I feel you, my ears are cooked and I'm not going to have a DAW available to look at waveforms so I am hoping to get it right without having to mess with any of that.

On a related note I am wondering if any Model 12 users are able to share insight on how the Phase Invert feature functions. Would I be able to invert the phase of a recorded track, or would it only invert the phase of the channel input, similar to how an ART MP preamp's phase invert would work on an analog recording. I looked at the manual and block diagram but couldn't reach a conclusion.

 

[shredd]

I try to count my blessings.

When I do recording work and I think it sounds good…it doesn’t matter if the finished work sounds like Gilbert Gottfried screaming the Sanskrit alphabet to everyone else. Makes me happy…

 

[-mjk-]

An old trick I used to use was to place my OVRHD mics as high as possible to avoid the cymbals being too harsh on the crash hits. Higher mics also tended to reduce the localization of the kick/snare in the stereo pair.

 

[Max Relic]

@Phil Tipping Totally agree, I couldn't have expressed the concept better, or with fewer words.

 

[Max Relic]

An old trick I used to use was to place my OVRHD mics as high as possible to avoid the cymbals being too harsh on the crash hits. Higher mics also tended to reduce the localization of the kick/snare in the stereo pair.

Thanks for sharing your experience @-mjk- , I would add that the distance between microphone and source (drums here) affects the captured loudness of the source and the direct/ambience ratio, i.e. volume and quality of the sound; the far the microphone(s) is placed from the drum, and more room ambience will be "heard", including reflections from the other drums.
The sweet spot depends on many factors, so I would say that most of the time ears are the judge.
IMO good ears are a sound engineer's most valuable tool. Developing such sensitivity requires tons of time, and curiosity, and motivation... people can read a big chef 5-min recipe and get great results but it will remain a shortcut to instant gratification. IMHO

 

[Max Relic]

Sorry for digressing, and back in topic. The A-T 2035 and the RØDE M5 are not exactly the same, though both are cardiod polar pattern condenser mics:
• one is a large diaphragm type, the other is a small diaphragm
• according to respective manuals the AT2035 has higher dynamic range and max. input level (SPL), better S/N ratio, less inherent noise than the M5
• frequency response is comparable, the AT2035 has low-cut + pad switch
• the M5 is much lighter which can be useful in some circumstances

My advice is to make some test recording with the available mics and think about alternative mics only if you are unsatisfied with what you get from the AT2035. Place the mics and listen while you move them slightly, on and off-axis, try different placement until you get a sound you like then hit record. The drummer and your ears will be your best friends in the quest for the right sound, be patient and try different solutions (time allowing, of course).

Re. your second question, phase invert is applied to live input signal. If need be, recorded tracks can be phase inverted using any audio editor software (i.e. Audacity is a multi-platform freeware).

 

[-mjk-]

I would add that the distance between microphone and source (drums here) affects the captured loudness of the source and the direct/ambience ratio, i.e. volume and quality of the sound; the far the microphone(s) is placed from the drum, and more room ambience will be "heard", including reflections from the other drums.

We had a beautiful huge room, and the 80s was all about ambient drums. Sometimes I would use the room as a chamber during mixing by sending a signal into the live room speakers and picking up the room sound with a pair of U-67s. Those were the days....

The sweet spot depends on many factors, so I would say that most of the time ears are the judge.
IMO good ears are a sound engineer's most valuable tool. Developing such sensitivity requires tons of time, and curiosity, and motivation... people can read a big chef 5-min recipe and get great results but it will remain a shortcut to instant gratification. IMHO

I never mixed by the numbers.

 

[baddestbrain]

Thanks for the tips and advice everybody. The unmatched AT2035's worked fine (even after one of them got knocked over and hit the ground... I thought they would be more fragile). I didn't look at the waveforms, but I guess we got the alignment pretty close because phase inverting in the DAW later didn't seem to improve the sound of the snare or the kick.

I hope to wrap up these first Model 12 songs this weekend. Typically I mic the amp when recording guitar, but now that I have a Logic X trial, I'm wondering what the best way to record a virtual amp from the DAW to the Model 12 would be. I looked at the manual and in section 5 Basic Recording it says the PC input is for using signal from the computer as input source. Is that the best way to record live software instruments into the M12?