Upgrading to the DP-32SD

[Muffster58]

I've owned a DP32-SD for about a week after purchasing it through Stupid Deal of the Day and, believe me, for $399 it's an absolute steal. I've read some of the concerns here, so I thought I'd chime in.

- I can't imagine why anyone in this day and age would want a CD burner in a recorder.

SD cards are so much easier to deal with, and there are no mechanical parts involved that can fail like in a CD burner. It's extremely simply to import and export tracks, masters, etc. files from this recorder to a computer via USB, just like the DP-008EX I also own. Why not burn CD's there if you need to? I transfer all of my music files from the recorder to my laptop for back-up purposes anyway, and I can also tweak whatever I want via Audacity (totally free) if required.

Most of the time I upload my music to SoundCloud or other on-line services. IMHO, CD's are a dying breed when it comes to today's technologies anyway.

- Sure you can control the pan of stereo tracks, you just use the balance controls instead of the pan controls. Every track can be controlled separately as far as this goes too. I have my drums set up using 7 mics on separate tracks, and using the pan controls I simulate listening to my kit like you're standing right in front of it. It sounds awesome.

You're probably wondering how I live with only one XLR input left after the drums are all attached to the recorder. Simple in my case, I just attach my 16 channel mixer to the last input. Works out perfectly for me .

- You can indeed control the headphone volume via the monitor level knob. I personally don't have headphones plugged directly in the front of the unit, but I know the monitor level control works when you do. I have the monitor outputs attached to a Prosonus HP4 headphone amp, which provides me with 4
headphone inputs that can be independently controlled, plus a monitor feed-through. Nice, cheap add-on which provides a lot of function. I really don't know how drummers can live without a headphone amp anyway.

- I don't use MIDI, so I could care less, but I can certainly see where that will be a concern for people who do. Considering the price of this unit, I don't think you can ask for the world though.

- I'm curious what makes anyone think that Tascam won't provide firmware updates if required? I've not run into a single bug with this unit yet, but if some come up I'm sure they would provide a fix for them.


Now, onto some stuff that bothers me a bit, but none are showstoppers:

- Every time the unit is power cycled, the phantom power state is not retained. I need this for overhead cardioid pencil condenser microphones for my cymbals, so I have to remember to turn it on when recording drums.

- The virtual tracks feature is an excellent thing for recording multiple takes on a single instrument, but as I mentioned I have 7 drum mics plugged into the unit. As far as I know, the only way I can control virtual tracks there is one-by-one until I get through all 7 tracks (someone correct me if I'm wrong please). Too much hassle, but there's an easy work-around... I just make a copy of the entire song and do the next take from there.

Anyway, my two cents, or maybe even a dollar considering the length of this post!

 

[SDST]

Muffster58, are you running a preamp between your mics and the SD32?

 

[Muffster58]

Nope, just this low-end set of CAD drum mics. I should upgrade since I just got a new set of DW's, but as cheap as these are, they still perform very nicely.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drum-microphone-packages/cad-pro-7-drum-microphone-kit-7-piece

 

[SDST]

The reason I asked is that all of my recordings come out very low, volume wise. I'm having a hard time with the 32SD and recording levels and was wondering what others are using in their set-ups.

 

[Muffster58]

Are you sure you're setting the trim pots properly?

As a rule of thumb, when setting up a new input, I set the level slider at 0 and the master stereo slider at 5, then turn the trim pot up until it hurts (the OL indicator blinks, and the level meter display hits red fairly often). Then, back the trim pot off a tad until OL doesn't blink much, except during loud passages.

There's nothing wrong with the OL indicator blinking once in a while and the level meters touching the red a bit, as long as the sound doesn't distort. Trust your ears on this, and don't be afraid to experiment with the equalizer as well. You just don't want it happening constantly, or you'll definitely wind up with distorted sound.

Keep in mind that you won't be able to fix that distortion later, but if you avoid getting the levels to the point where they're distorted during recording, you will be able to move the levels sliders to the volume you want each one at to your heart's content during mix down.

Try this as an experiment... Import a professional stereo track from a CD or elsewhere of a song you like onto a stereo track of the recorder. When I play cover songs, I do this anyway for reference when playing other instruments. You'll probably be surprised at how high the levels are when you play the original track back and watch the meters.

I guess to sum it up, I record as loud as possible without distortion, then adjust the track levels to where I want them during mix down.

Here's one I did on my DP-008EX recently, which I recorded and mixed down exactly as I just described to you. Granted, it's not the best (my fault as a musician, not the recorder!), but I expect even better results with what I'm doing with the drums mics now as I described before with the DP32-SD .

https://soundcloud.com/muffster58/the-power-of-love

 

[SDST]

Thanks for the reply and detailing your process. My problem is I can't get enough volume.

I have an MXL990 for vocals, I use a Shure Beta 58a for the guitar, and the Samson 8 kit for the drums. I have to have the mics as close as I can get them to the sound source and the gains turned all the way up to get about 50% input level at the meters. I called MF to ask if it's possible I had a defective unit, they told me buy a preamp from them. I use 3 or 4 mics for the drums, 1 for vocals, 1 for guitar, and when my buds come over they bring another mic for back-up vocals and another one for a second acoustic guitar so I'd need allot of channels in an amp and that gets expensive for something half decent.

I still have about a week of time that I can send it back, not sure what to do at this point because overall, I really like the 32sd.

And personally, I think you did an awesome job with Celine's song.

 

[Muffster58]

Right, that's what I was getting at with the trim pots and track sliders, not enough volume. As you realize, 50% at the meters is indeed very low, especially if you have the trim pot and track slider both all the way up. You definitely want those going into the green at the very least. When you say you "gains", are you talking about trim, track sliders or both? I'd assume you've cranked the master stereo slider as well.

IMHO, there's no way you should need a pre-amp. I use vocal mics and mic'd acoustic guitars with mine and I can easily get the volume I want, which as I mentioned most of the time is pretty loud during recording. I'm using fairly cheapie Carvin M50 and ATUS ATR30 mics there.

I assume you have your drum mics pretty close to the batter heads? My bass mic is about 1 inch from the resonant head (non-ported), and the rest of the mics in the CAD kit I mentioned clamp onto the rims. So, they're also very close to the batter heads (1-2 inches max). The cymbal mics are on boom stands about a foot above the cymbals. I get volume up the ying with this set-up, For the drums, I only have to set the trim pots to around 09:00 or so with the tracks sliders at zero and the master stereo slider at 5. The exception are the cymbal mics, where I turn the trim up to 01:30.

Have you tried anything at line level like an electric guitar or keyboards? Did you try importing a CD track as I suggested? If these result in higher level meter display, then I would think the culprit has to be either your mics or the distance you have them from the sound source, although I know you said they were close. Very strange.

I think it would be weird for the unit to work, yet produce low volumes the way you describe. If you tried everything including what I suggested, I'd just exchange it for the same unit. If MF won't exchange it, return it for a refund then simply order it again. Or, you might give Tascam a call directly and see what they have to say before going through that hassle.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it. ;^)

 

[SDST]

Thank you, I appreciate all of your replies.

I did import an Aerosmith tune and it sounds great.

Very similar to you, I have 2 overheads I use to capture the cymbals and toms, they are 18" above the cymbals. My bass mic is about 4" away from the head. The snare is rim-clamped and about 2-2/12" from the head. I tried the same settings you're using but the results were the same.

If I plug my guitar into the guitar jack, it seems fine but is very muddy.

I just finished a conversation with MF and they've already emailed a return shipping label to me. I'm going to exchange it and see how it goes.

Again, thanks.

 

[Muffster58]

Sounds like you've got a plan. Let us know how it works out!

 

[SDST]

Just wanted to update. UPS dropped off my replacement DP-32SD today. Took about 5 minutes to get it set up and test a quick track with a mic and acoustic guitar. No question there was an issue with the first unit. The new one will clip at a little over 1/2 gain where as the original would almost clip at full gain and right on top of the mic. So, all appears to be well and I'm happy again!

And for what it's worth, Musician's Friend customer support was fantastic.

 

[Muffster58]

Wow, that's really weird. Maybe some sort of issue with the pre-amps in the unit or something. Anyway, glad to hear you got it fixed and are happy now! It's a fantastic recorder, and I'm using the heck out of mine without any issues.

MF always has excellent customer service, and besides their selection that's the thing I love about them most. Glad to hear they took good care of you.

 

[SDST]

I mic'd out a short test drum track. I love the clarity and lack of background noise. Really like this thing now that it works correctly!

 

[Muffster58]

No doubt it's an awesome unit, I don't know how they can make something like this and sell it so cheap. I also have a DP-008EX, same there. That's the one I recorded that Celine tune I sent you a link to, also an excellent recorder... and only $150!

I'd highly recommend that you read the entire manual (if you're like me, several times lol) to see what you might be missing function-wise. It's loaded with it.

BTW, not sure how many drums or drum mics you have, but it really sounds cool to do what I described in a previous post:

"I have my drums set up using 7 mics on separate tracks, and using the pan controls I simulate listening to my kit like you're standing right in front of it. It sounds awesome."

That is, if you're left with enough inputs to use one track per mic. My drum mics take up 7 inputs, but I've got a 16 channel mixer connected to the 8th. Since I'm kind of a "one man band", this works out perfectly for me since I'm only playing one instrument at a time connected to the mixer.

You might look into these, which is what I'm using. Also inexpensive, but they sound excellent. Best part is, they clamp onto the rims (except for the cymbal mics of course). The last thing I need are more stands hanging around.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drum-microphone-packages/cad-pro-7-drum-microphone-kit-7-piece

They also currently have two CAD 4 mic sets, if you have a smaller drum kit, at around the same price. No dedicated cymbal mics though.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drum-microphones/cad

Then of course you have to sink some money into XLR cables, but it you look around you can find them pretty cheap on MF or other sites. I found a 10 pack on Amazon for like $100. Oh, and two overhead boom stands if you decide to go with a set that contains cymbal mics.

Anyway, enough rattling on, sorrry, I tend to do that in message board posts. Very happy to hear you're finally having some fun with your new recorder!

 

[Muffster58]

P.S. Here's a few pics so you can see what I'm talking about with the CAD mic mounts.

 

[SDST]

Thanks for the info.

Currently I'm running 4 mics for the drums, 2 overheads, 1 bass, and 1 on the snare. I ran them on separate channels but I get some bleed over but not too too bad. I have 3 high toms and 2 floor toms, snare, 1 bass. I'm trying to get the best sound I can with as few mics as I can. It's ok when I'm alone but when my jam buds come over, there's 2 guitars, a bass, and a vocal mic.

I made up a pair of dishes for the overheads to concentrate the sound and cut down on the bleed and it helped a bit but it's not a total cure.



I did look up the mics you have and it really looks like a good deal especially given the sound that you're getting (Celine tune) so I just may get a set of them and use my older ones as backups.

I'm sort of an over-engineer kind of guy with some things. My jam room is in my basement and it's a new house so I had it built with 9' ceilings. I mounted wood on the 1 floor floor joists and designed a system that allows me to pretty much put the mics wherever I want. All that so I didn't need more stands!

Good chatting with you, talk soon.

 

[Muffster58]

I don't think you can "over-engineer" sound. I know I'm anal as hell with mine. ;^)

Preventing bleed-through from one drum mic to another sounds like quite a challenge. I don't make any effort to do that. Where I *do* make an effort is to not have the playback music from the headphones bleed-through onto my drum tracks. I'm using CAD MH300 closed-back headphones, and even with a headphone amplifier, I get zero bleed-through into the drum mics. Closed back headphones that isolate to the max are key to that, whatever brand you're using.

Anyway, to each his own. Sounds like you've got a great system to suspend mics though, as long as you're not gigging!

 

[SDST]

Lol! I'd have to take my basement to the gig!

 

[rockdaddy]

So...my dp32-sd has the "rec safe" button instead of the "cd" button. How do you access the cd menu?

 

[Brians Evil Twin]

There's no CD recorder on the DP-32SD

DP32 = CD + Midi I/O
DP-32SD = No CD or Midi
DP-24SD = No CD or Midi

 

[rockdaddy]

Thanks BET, I was convinced this unit featured the cd burner. Have to look at things a bit closer next time.