Tascam DP 24/32 + Tascam Model 12 Awesome Pair!

[lastmonk]

For the last year I've been tracking vocal groups, bands, community jazz bands, quartets, and quintets with Tascam Model 12 and then do the Mixing and Mastering on Tascam DP 24. Although the Model 12 does have audio editing capabilities, the effects, rehearsal, virtual tracks, auto punch are much nicer to work with on the Tascam DP 24.

I produce the master completely using only the mix of the Tascam DP 24 & Model 12. For musicians with small groups, bands, virtual midi bands, etc. the Tascam DP 24 + Model 12 (Probably any of the Tascam Model series) is the simplest, most cost effective way to produce Internet ready, Ipad, Android, IPhone ready master recordings.

I used to use Cubase for larger more complex mixing sessions, I have since totally dropped Cubase its not in my workflow at all. In my particular situation over the last year I've accomplish mixing and mastering up to 72 tracks using submixes and bouncing. I've never been more productive. No computer, no dongles, no mouse, no subscriptions, no operating system upgrades, no patches, no computer crashes. no latency, no plugin incompatibilites or other plugin nonsense. Just a nice portastudio + digital mixer

I use Aux Send 1 & 2 on my Tascam DP 24 to connect to any outboard effects or DSP processing I need for the mix or master. And all is good!


For those that want to take Tascam Model series tracks into a DAW and then finish the mix and master, thats fine it works. But I can personally vouch for the process of using tracking on Tascam Model 12 and dragging those tracks to the Tascam DP 24 and doing all of the mixing and mastering without any problems on the Tascam DP 24.

 

[dctdct]

Thanks for your insights! I might go the similar route (have already a Portastudio for mix and master) and actually looking for a live mixer with MTR in front of it. For this the market is reduced to Tascam, Soundcraft and Zoom, AFAIK.
I'm curious how your workflow for the track transition is. Do you have a dedicated PC with two USB connections for file copy support? Or how do you deal with the transfer of single or several track from Model > Portastudio in quick reliable way?

 

[lastmonk]

Yes my mac has multiple to USB ports. I have the USB Connection from my Model 12 to my Mac. I have the USB connection from my DP 24 to my Mac. I drag the wav files from the Model 12 folder directly to the Audio Depot folder on the DP 24. and then use the import feature on the DP 24 to bring the tracks in.

It works like a charm. Once the I've mixed and mastered the songs on the DP 24. I do drag them to the Mac and convert them to MP3 in Audacity so that I can upload them to the Internet or other devices. One of the other musicians I work with has a Tascam Model 24 and I share Wav files from the DP 24 and my Model 12 with him, and he makes his own mix directly on his Model 24.

IMO it does not get any simpler than the Tascam Portastudio + Tascam Model series connection for a sensible and complete "live" to home recording studio solution

 

[Tobermory]

Thank you for sharing your work recording / production methods, lastmonk.

I mostly use a DP-24 and DP-008EX for mine. Largely because, as you mention above, dedicated hardware avoids the latency and glitching issues, which I have encountered using DAW software under a multitasking OS.

I sometimes use the DAW to apply particular plug-ins to tracks. Or for precise audio waveform editing, where the graphical display makes changes easier. And then import them back in to the DP-24, depending on the nature of the music.

Having started on compact cassette based multitrackers (portastudios?) I find the editing facilities of the DP-24 and DP-008EX quite sufficient for producing composites from multiple takes and such.

 

[lastmonk]

software based DAWs are powerful and necessary. If you are a Mix Engineer, Mastering Engineer, Film Composer, Video game sound producer, or you own and run a professional recording studio with lots of clients you literally can't get buy without a software based DAW.'' unless you buy a veeerrrry expensive console with the software built in

But for musicians, band leaders, composers, performers, vocalists, choir directors, etc that just want to record and distribute their music, a software DAW is usually more trouble than its worth, and overkill in most cases. Sure you can definitely use Porta Studio Effect Sends, and the Aux Sends on the Model 12 to connect to VSTs, Plugins, effects, and DSP processing in a software DAW and then route back into the Tascams especially if you've already invested money in a DAW and the Plugins. But the effects in both the Tascam Portastudios and the Tascam Model series are up to the task if you really learn how to use them.

When the goal is to get a good recording of a performance by a musician, band, duo, trio, quartet, gospel choir, church choir, vocalists, swing band, community orchestra, etc The Portastudios and Tascam Model series are the simplest and most cost effective way to go. And the mixing and mastering capabilities of the Portastudios can absolutely be used to produce very high quality commercial sounding recordings.

Most home studios, churches, community centers, K-12 schools, garage bands , husband and wife duos, are actually best served by Tascam Portastudios and the Tascam Model series. The TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) of DAWs like Protools, Ableton, Studio One, Cubase,etc and the expertise required to really be effective with those kind of DAWs is just overkill

I think with the release of Tascam Model Series,the Zoom offerings, MPCs, the Maschine, etc. Folks are starting to realize there are simpler, more appropriate and more cost effective methods than playing the DAW game

 

[Max Relic]

I subscribe all of the above. And would add that some of us are simply getting tired of using computers and WIMP interfaces all day long to put food on the table, and aspire to return to a simpler way of making music. DAW is always at hand if needed, difference is it's no more the pivot point of the universe.

 

[mijama]

If I may, what is the advantage of recording with the Model and mixing with the DP as opposed to simply recording and mixing everything on the DP by itself?

 

[Max Relic]

@mijama
10 mic/line inputs with full channel strip and 12 simultaneous tracks recording capability (10 individual tracks + stereo main mix) vs. 8 inputs with shared controls / 8 simultaneous track recording capability. It's more a matter of different feeling, in that the Model 12 is designed as a stage mixer with recording capability while the DP24 is like a self-contained production studio. The Model 12 is suitable to record the live performance of a small band, this would be a bit awkward -even if not impossible- to do with the DP24. On the other hand, the Portastudio series offer a full set of production tools that the Model series doesn't have so they complement each other. I don't know how tight is the DP24 sync capability, if it can be slaved reliably to the Model 12 then that would expand the application range.

 

[lastmonk]

If I may, what is the advantage of recording with the Model and mixing with the DP as opposed to simply recording and mixing everything on the DP by itself?

@mijama You absolutely could record and mix everything on the DP by itself. Its totally up to the task. The DP 24/32 has an 8 input digital mixer and the ability to mix up to 32/40 tracks. So you do not need the Model 12.

Likewise you could also record and mix everything on the Model series without the DP 24/32. But like Max posted if you need more simultaneous inputs i.e more than 8 then the Model 12 is a nice complement to the DP 24. Also the effects, virtual tracks, punch in, punch out, rehearsal features on the DP24/32 are just nicer to use.

So it depends on how much you need to record simultaneously. If 8 channels does it for you then getting any of the Model series is not necessary. But if you absolutely need more than 8 channels simultaneously then Model 12, 16, 24 is your friend. Get the appropriate Model series size do your tracking, or capture your performances and then do studio work on the DP 24/32.

Its all a matter of convenience. The DP 24/32 is a full blown recording studio with an 8 channel digital mixer as a cherry on top. It has 10 virtual tracks for each of the real tracks. Through bouncing you can record and mix an unlimited amount of channels! Although it can be time consuming the bouncing and virtual track capability of the DP 24/32 allow you to mix and master a project of any size (if you have the patience and the time). This year, I did a project that had 72 tracks on my DP 24 SD.

That said, I don't take my Portastudios out on the road. When I want to record a choir, or band, or community orchestra, etc. I take the Model 12 out on the road and capture whatever performance I need to capture using the Model 12 and then do all the mixing and mastering on the Portastudio. Also, I'm not to excited about the idea of constantly plugging and unplugging cables into the back of my DP 24. I'm not sure if those jacks on the back are as sturdy as the ones on the Model series. As Max pointed out the Model series is made for use and abuse of a stage mixer and it is built accordingly. The DP 24/32 is more of a portable home studio type scenario Its portable and well built, but I wouldn't necessarily call it rugged. where as the Model series are designed for on stage, hauling back-n-forth etc. And I think can take a little more wear-n-tear. But its mixing and mastering is awkward compared to the DP Portastudios.

@Max Relic yes the DP 24/32 can be synchronized to the Model series. I use the Moto Midi Micro Express for SMPTE to Midi Synch. These are very very nice Midi boxes.

https://motu.com/products/midi/micro_usb


For details on striping and SMPTE to MIDI see Phil Tipping's and Powercoat's Youtube demonstrations that show how to synchronize audio and midi. Using these techniques you can actually combine DP 24/32 with Model 12, 16, 24 to increase simultaneous tracking if you need to. I have used my DP 24 SD + my Tascam Model 12 to simultaneously record 16 channels recently.

 

[mijama]

Thanks for the exhaustive feedback! That's quite interesting. I'm absolutely delighted with my DP-24SD, although the lack of MIDI bums me out a little from time to time. The Model series is intriguing to me. Not really for me at the moment due to financial considerations, plus its feature set is not as compatible for me as the DP's. This is particularly the case when it comes to the ability to bounce and to assign any input to any channel. But for what they do, the Models seem to be absolutely killer. Maybe in the future...

Let us know how the MIDI sync works out. Seems to me it should be pretty straightforward, especially if you have a pre-SD DP. Shouldn't you just be able to link the machines together with a single MIDI cable without the extra hardware, or am I missing something?

 

[Max Relic]

@lastmonk
Yes I now about syncing two machines with FSK/SMPTE timecode, I was precisely referring to master/slave relationship between Model 12 and DP-24 (non -SD) using the embedded MIDI capabilities. Since Model 16 and 24 don't have MIDI onboard they can be synced by printing SMPTE on one track.

@mijama
From what I read on the manuals it guess the DP-24 (again, non-SD) can be synced to Model 12 using the onboard MIDI Clock and Song Position Point functions using just a 5-pin MIDI cable, Model 12 being the master. @lastmonk can confirm if I am correct?

 

[lastmonk]

@Max Relic I have a DP-24 SD not the DP 24. But Midi Sync master/slave is Midi Sync. So definitely you would be able to sync up a DP 24 that has the midi ports with any of the Model series

 

[Stew71]

I'm curious about this and may test it with my Mark 1 DP24 and Model 12.

From the manual, it looks like the DP won't receive midi clock or timecode - but if set as MMC slave, will at least start/stop in sync (it mentions being able to sync two DP units this way). I don't think that would enable for example moving to a point midway through a song for overdubs, but I may be wrong.

I suppose you can set the bpm manually on both units, if that matters. Or just use the DP as a tape machine essentially. That would give 18 simultaneous inputs anyway.

 

[Stew71]

yes the DP 24/32 can be synchronized to the Model series. I use the Moto Midi Micro Express for SMPTE to Midi Synch. These are very very nice Midi boxes.

For details on striping and SMPTE to MIDI see Phil Tipping's and Powercoat's Youtube demonstrations that show how to synchronize audio and midi. Using these techniques you can actually combine DP 24/32 with Model 12, 16, 24 to increase simultaneous tracking if you need to. I have used my DP 24 SD + my Tascam Model 12 to simultaneously record 16 channels recently.

Well, I just tried doing this natively (with a Mark 1 DP24 and Model 12) and unfortunately it doesn't work: the Model 12 doesn't have an option to act as MMC Master (although the DP24 has options for both master and slave), and the neither unit will act as a Midi Clock or Timecode slave.

To be honest, I don't currently need to use both units simultaneously (and one of the major draws of the M12 for me was the small footprint anyway, so using both units together defeats the object pretty comprehensively) but it would be nice to know for sure, for future reference.

I've not yet checked Phil's videos about all this. I will do though, to see if I'm missing anything here. Clearly there's a way to do it, as you've managed to!

 

[lastmonk]

@Stew71

Yes watch Phil's video and the Powercoat Video. I do not have a DP 24, I have a DP 24 SD

I used:

https://motu.com/products/midi/micro_usb

To do the striping.

 

[Stew71]

I emailed Tascam to check I wasn't missing anything. They confirmed that the Model 12 doesn't support MMC, and sadly that there are no plans to implement it. It's a shame.

 

[lastmonk]

It does so much for the price though., Its bound to miss a feature here and there

@Stew71 I have found that these kinds of obstacles present opportunities to learn different ways to solve the problem.

When I think about what they were working with back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's the Tascam DP 24 & the Model 12 combination is a dream come true

 

[tregis57]

Interesting thread - if indeed, I am coming to it late. Hopefully people are still checking in. I own a DP 32sd, and am looking into getting the model 16 to increase my inputs, to get the benefit of its higher quality pres(?), and also to be able to record more than eight channels at once (recording to the model 16 and dp simultaneously, then exporting/importing files from the 16 to the dp per the suggestions above). My questions are the following: 1) from what I see (or not quite understanding) in the 16s' manual, am I only able to create two distinct stereo submixes, if I want for example to create a stereo sub mixdown of 5 channels of drums, and a LR piano stereo submix on the 16 (to be sent to the DP as the DP records)? 2) If I'm recording to both boards at once and am using headphones for the players, are there any suggestions as to how the players would be able to monitor the sound from both boards at input? I guess I would need a separate mixer to sum the stereo out outputs or monitor/ control room outputs of each device, and then use that separate mixer to plug in the headphones? Yikes . . Hopefully I won't be in that position much. I'm wondering if there's anything possibly simpler than that (?) Anyways, I'm excited for the process - I happily and creatively used the original tascam 4 track cassettes back in the 70s, and so far am super enjoying getting my hands off of the mouse! Creating more on the fly . . . Thanks for any input !

 

[-mjk-]

You may not want to be recording on both devices at once because you will never be able to play them back together as the machines are not sync'd. Sure you can do it but you'd be forced to immediately import the audio files to the DP to be played together. Otherwise you'd be playing the M16 tracks standalone, trying to evaluate them; same for the DP tracks. Not the best workflow, really. For example, how would you be able to tell if the drums recorded on one machine lined up with the guitars recorded on the other machine? The tracks must be played back together, in sync, in order to evaluate the performances.

You could record everything on the M16 and then export the tracks to the DP for overdubs. Of course you can always use the M16 as a mixer for doing submixes to the DP's inputs, such as drums, and other multi-mic setups. So you could use the devices together as you propose - but the workflow will have to be optimized for your needs.

If I'm recording to both boards at once and am using headphones for the players, are there any suggestions as to how the players would be able to monitor the sound from both boards at input? I guess I would need a separate mixer to sum the stereo out outputs or monitor/ control room outputs of each device, and then use that separate mixer to plug in the headphones? Yikes

Yikes is right. I wouldn't even attempt that. Talk about a nightmare! Plus, as I said, the band wouldn't even be able to hear back the song as they recorded it.

I'm wondering if there's anything possibly simpler than that (?)

If you need a lot of inputs and tracks to be recorded in real time together, consider using the M16 (or even the M24) as the initial recorder for the "bed" tracks, and then import them to the DP for overdubs. Much easier to manage.

 

[tregis57]

Thank you for your very helpful response. To clarify, I wouldn’t be attempting to sync the two units, or to listen back separately when both are used as recording devices simultaneously. The thought was to see how streamlined I could make the process of getting the files from the M16 over to the DP32SD through export/import so I could then listen to all. But, I think your conclusion and simplification is the best plan, not nearly as schleppy as what I was going to do. I hadn’t really considered doing it as you suggested, even thought that workflow had already been promoted elsewhere on this forum. As you said, recording only to the M16/24, then importing to the DP when ready to mix, or at the overdub stage makes the most sense. I’ll get the extra inputs and avoid the problematic issues I mentioned. I think I’m emotionally attached to recording onto the DP – I like the transport buttons feel, location, ease of assigning, overall immediacy, readable screen, the DP’s comfortable location in my studio, wiring already set-up neatly, etc. Oh well . . . Now looking forward to evolving into the M16 (or 24) in. I imagine there will be questions to follow. Thanks again!