Standalone Hardware Recording vs: DAW/Software Recording

[BazzBass]

there will be no new Portastudios. Tascam/Teac is owned by Gibson,who will run it into the ground. No new R&D, no innovation. They're concentrating on cheap usb interfaces that,frankly,tarnish Tascam's legacy of groundbreaking recording gear.

 

[Daniel Stroup]

Hmm. Then the Model 12 may be the way to go for me. It's not that I want to completely eliminate using my DAW (Logic X), But I want to be able to quickly record song ideas, practice loops, and lay down guitar/bass tracks without a computer. I definitely want to record vocals without a computer due to fan noise. The issue I've always had - for the last 20 years- no matter how much computer power I had, Tracking VST's, AU's, and audio tracks simultaneously has always caused problems with stability, crashes, quality, stuttering, and then I'm distracted from whatever I was recording. I may be able to use Kontakt alone, and send that out of my audio interface into a stereo pair on the Model 12. Maybe even keep a few standard beats on the SD card ready to pull into a new Song at different BPM's. Hmm...I'm starting to think this could work.

 

[lastmonk]

I think that we will see more from Tascam on the digital portastudio front. These things are really taking off. The podcasters and youtube streamers have realized that the all-in-one digital recorders are the way to go.

Zoom now has this:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/L20--zoom-livetrak-l-20-20-channel-digital-mixer-recorder
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PodtrakP8--zoom-podtrak-p8-8-channel-podcasting-mixer
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/L12--zoom-livetrak-l-12-12-channel-digital-mixer-recorder

Tascam has the Model 12,16, and 24

Some people R going crazy over:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...ic-bluebox-compact-digital-mixer-and-recorder

Actually, the real cost, and complexity of using DAWs i.e. Pro-tools, Cubase, etc is starting to become prohibitive and its all becoming a bit too much :-(

https://new.steinberg.net/cubase/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2vS6gZGT7wIVxtXACh2LQglQEAAYAiAAEgJiU_D_BwE

Cubase Pro is about $600 and that doesn't include all the requisite plugins. And there is regardless to popular opinion a Fu!king steep learning curve.

And Protools OMG

https://shop.avid.com/ccrz__ProductDetails?viewState=DetailView&cartID=&sku=DYNA20001

Subscriptions models, paying for the all eternity, or $600, $700, $900 etc. And major FN learning curve there. Squeeze, Squeeze, Squeeze the money out of you until you don't have anymore.

Sure if you're a professional mix engineer, and you have to work with what's left of the big recording studios, you could make the argument that Protools is the standard blah, blah, blah, blah, Or if you're a budding do-it-yourself-recording studio that want to project you're one of the big boy.

But the average band, average singer/songwriter, the choir director, podcaster, the community band leader, the supper club, and night club performer, garage band, or (quarantined band these days) can get along alot easier and cheaper with an all-in-one digital recorder.

And absolutely Nobody does it better than Tascam's Portastudios, Nobody! The portastudio is the easiest to use, most reliable, most bang for the buck performance recording solution that money can buy anywhere.

https://tascam.com/us/category/PortaStudios_and_Trainers

I think there's a big future for Tascam's Portastudio. It sells well. Its priced right, and virtually everyone that owns one or two is happy with it.

If Tascam, adds 1 or 2 HDMI outs to the Portastudio, that alone would be a DAW killer

The next Tascam Portastudio should add to the existing 24/32 Portastudio feature set these 4 things:

• 1 or 2 HDMI outs for the Tascam Video Display
• 16 to 24 combo XLR Inputs
• Support for Surround Mixes (at least 5.1)
• Support for Naming of the 24/32 Digital Channels that can be saved with each song

if Tascam adds these 4 things to the DP 24/32 models it will shutdown and shut up a lot of the competition both hardware competition e.g Zoom, and the software DAWs LOL!

GO TASCAM DP 24/32 Porta studio

 

[David Porter]

The next Tascam Portastudio should add to the existing 24/32 Portastudio feature set these 4 things:

• 1 or 2 HDMI outs for the Tascam Video Display
• 16 to 24 combo XLR Inputs
• Support for Surround Mixes (at least 5.1)
• Support for Naming of the 24/32 Digital Channels that can be saved with each song

And MIDI! Good grief - bring back the MIDI. It's 2021.

 

[-mjk-]

Yeah, my DP-32 has MIDI. Too bad they took it out on the SD versions.

 

[lastmonk]

The new Tascam Model 12 has midi

https://tascam.com/us/product/model_12/top

So maybe Teac now realizes how important Midi is. However the Tascam Model 16, 24 series are not replacements for the Tascam DP 24/32. The model 16 and 24 are analog mixers, with digital recording, without all of the mixing, editing, and mastering features of the DP 24/32. Also the DP 24/32 has a digital mixer not analog mixer. One is not a replacement for the other.

Yes I would definitely add midi to the list

• 1 or 2 HDMI outs for the Tascam Video Display

• 16 to 24 combo XLR Inputs

• Support for Surround Mixes (at least 5.1)

• Support for Naming of the 24/32 Digital Channels that can be saved with each song

• Midi

 

[Arjan P]

Cubase Pro is about $600 and that doesn't include all the requisite plugins.

That is simply not true. Cubase Pro comes with loads of plugins, more than you'll ever need. Sure, you can buy all kinds on top of that but you certainly don't need to.

And to be fair, I think if you come from a Portastudio of any kind, you'll have more than enough options (and plugins!) in Cubase Artist - which is not $600 but more like $350. You could even make a case for Cubase Elements for $99. Compare here: https://new.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/

BTW, I certainly see the ease of use and hands-on appeal of the Portastudios, but IMO they have limitations that a DAW (and certainly Cubase Pro) has not. I went from an Akai DPS-16 to DAW so I know the benefits of either.

 

[-mjk-]

Podcasters are not making records. Those products that are geared for the podcasters and beat programmers won't cut it making high track count, performance-based records.

 

[lastmonk]

We're not talking about limitations here between A Daw, and a Portastudio. That's a red herring for the average singer/songwriter, garage band, glee club, church choir, community brass band, pod caster, youtube streamer or the weekend musician. Folks in these categories don't have high track counts, or need anything beyond the limits of a Portastudio. They don't want or need the hassle of dongles, and subscriptions, or incompatibilities of drivers, or having to figure out what an audio interface is and what plugs into where. They just want to record their band, or choir, or violin quintet and share their music with friends, family and patrons.

They don't aspire to be Mix Engineers, or Top Rate record producers. They don't need unlimited midi or audio tracks or advanced automation. For pete sake they're recording music that is ultimately going to be streamed on youtube, or heard through cheap ear-buds on an ipod. A Daw is just simply overkill by a mile. At this point I'm extremely proficient with Cubase, I just got off a 16 channel firewire + 14 VST synths , 72 track project, that was full of so much unnecessary Bul!Sh#t that I swore to myself that next time, I don't care how much the customer is paying, I'm going to suggest they go find someone else. Once you go through all the trials and tribulations to get good in some DAW, I can understand the cognitive dissonance of believing its the only way to go and then recommending it to everyone (Misery loves company).

The fact of the matter is the portastudio is far more suitable and appropriate for the average musician, singer/songwriter who just wants to record their own compositions and performances and post them up on youtube or bandcamp.

And lets be real. The majority of all albums that were recorded from say 1995 back were recorded in studios that had 24 tracks or less . And who knows how many hip hop groups and rappers that used 4 track tape portastudios to launch their illustrious careers

If you like a DAW thats good 4 you, but the Temptations, The Jackson Five, The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Barbara Streisand, Eric Clapton, Elvis Presley, Kool Mo Dee, Tu Pac, Kraftwerk, Earth Wind & Fire, Chicago, ELO, and the list goes on as well as countless grammy winning albums, were recorded on equipment no where near as sophisticated as the DP 24/32. and in some cases without as many tracks

The gear doesn't make the man, the man makes the gear. Just think about the thousands of successful commercial albums that were recorded on 4 track, 8 tracks, 16 tracks, and 24 tracks, with only reverb, compression, limiting, some chorus and delay. I found this in my travels, the more music talent you're dealing with the less technology you need to get a good sounding recording, the less talent your dealing with the more technology you need to get a good recording.

If your average band, singer/songwriter , gospel choir, community jazz band, garage band, or weekend musicians needs more than 50 tracks per song, well, that pretty much says it all Lets get that focusrite and 178 tracks and let the auto-tune and automation begin

The Tascam Portastudio supports Sends and Returns that lets me add any kind Outboard gear(or VST plugin) processing I can imagine. The portastudio supports bouncing, and digital bouncing at that, which means I can deal with high track counts if I so choose with no sound quality loss. There is this little thing called sub mixing, and virtual tracks that does wonders for high track counts. With bouncing, virtual tracks, and sub mixing , I can deal with any kind of music I'm interested in recording. With the effects sends and returns I can use the real plugins (not the software plugins) as long as I got a cable long enough. And I don't have to worry about compatibility issues And if I so choose to use software VSTs with my DP24 I can do that in a snap as well.

Daws are for a certain brand of Hero. The Portastudio is for the ordinary person that just wants to record their music or song and have enough time and sanity left to enjoy other aspects of their lives

 

[BazzBass]

Actually, the real cost, and complexity of using DAWs i.e. Pro-tools, Cubase, etc is starting to become prohibitive and its all becoming a bit too much :-(

Regarding cost, Reaper is $60 for a 5 to 7 year license. Yes it has a steep learning curve for a novice like me,and your points that some musicians would rather use Portastudios as an all in one box recorder is very valid. I am one of them.
Trying to learn Reaper from scratch is daunting, sure, every option you need is a right mouse click away, IF you know what it's called and what sub directory it falls under etc.
I hope Portastudios continue to be developed.

 

[lastmonk]

Tascam's are very reliable and last for years and years . No joke there are some of the original 4 track portastudios still in use And there's always the after market availability. If you think about software, all the updates. A new version of blah, blah, blah DAW comes out an oh oh, will you have to update you OS? or your computer? Oh wait a new version of Chrome, or Firefox comes out and I had to update my browser, but then it broke my DAW, oh darn, maybe if I download the latest patch for the watchamajig I can get my plugins to start working again You don't have to go through any of that nonsense with Portastudios. I have a DP-02 and a DP 24 both work like a charm. However if I were to even try to get my old Cubase 4 running on my new Mac Big Sur I could forget it. All DAW versions become obsolete, incompatible, unsupported, as you continue to update your computer to deal with security patches, OS updates, and browser updates. Want the latest plugins well you better have the latest version of your DAW or there could be problems Even if you're perfectly happy with some DAW its only a matter of time before you'll be forced to upgrade it to a new version, if your computer is regularly connected to the Internet. These DAWs have become a hustle, almost annual updates, subscription fees, forced obsolescence. If the new plugins don't force you to update, the OS updates, and security patches will. P.T. Barnum had thoughts on this whole thing.

Once you have a Portastudio, thats it, no fees, no upgrade costs, no subscription costs, no dongles, no copy protection BullS#ht. And if you treat it right it will easily last you through thousands and thousands of recordings.

People are starting to flock to the all in ones, new hardware digital recorders/mixers, new hardware midi recorders e.g.

https://www.akaipro.com/products/mpc-series

are starting to take hold. With any luck the DAWs will be moved out of the main stream, and pushed onto the mix/mastering engineers that need and love them so much

I do a lot (I means a lot) of recording both professionally and casually of all kinds of musical and performance scenarios and my Tascams are literally always up to the task. I do occasionally do DAW work when I work with other people's projects. And after the project I'm sometimes able to convert them away from the Daw I export their audio tracks and import them into my DP and show them how much easier and intuitive the vast majority of the tasks are on the Tascam. I'll say over the last 3 years I have about a 40% success rate in convincing some of my musician associates to see that the Tascam really , truly and honestly is better for what they're trying to do. And every single one of my converted fellow musicians thank me whenever I see them.

It should all be about recording our music and our songs in the easiest, most enjoyable, and most reliable way possible. The Tascam portastudios give us that.

 

[-mjk-]

Except that the DP-32SD does have a high track count. That's 3 times the Model 12 + 2.

@lastmonk I'm not sure what you're going on about. But the range of Portastudios goes from 8 to 32 tracks. The last products that Tascam released are those Models, and the track count is going down. The question was is there a new Portastudio coming? No.

 

[Cosmic]

Lastmonk, you seem very sure of your statements.

What I have seen on-line lately is that the market for the little 4-8-track handhelds is busy, due to the podcasting and such. The new Tascam Mixer series appeals to a more ambitious group, and the DP series is for yet another target.

"Tascams are very reliable and last for years and years . No joke there are some of the original 4 track portastudios still in use And there's always the after market availability."

In my experience, analog Tascams are very reliable, and so are the digital ones. The type of construction of these two technologies is quite different, though, so little to compare.
Replacement parts can (and do) become a problem for the tape machines.
I have owned enough of them to know; I still have a 2-track reel-to-reel.

"Even if you're perfectly happy with some DAW its only a matter of time before you'll be forced to upgrade it to a new version, if your computer is regularly connected to the Internet."

Familiarity, even the frustrating kind, is very persuasive. It beats fear of the unknown. The reason people keep doing what they do, is, a lot of the time, because that's what they are used to, good or bad.
This particularly includes software, and why so many stick with awful or incompatible programs they can't run well: because learning something new is even more of a task. The old line about "engineers designing for other engineers" seems sadly true in software.

It doesn't, however, mean that by extension, every program is awful. Audacity is free, simple and works, for me, for now.

Workflow:

I love to track on the DP24SP, because it affords an intuitive way of laying down tracks when you are also playing instruments. Over the years, I went from tracking on the 788, to the 2488, and now to the DP24 because the machines kept having the workflow I liked.
The control layout, the speed of the punches, it all works for that purpose.
For tracking, it doesn't get in my way, and allows me to concentrate on the music.

The screens on the DPs are small and the faders are short.
For mixing, it gets in my way.
I take my tracks into Audacity on my 30-inch screen and mix there.
Best of both. Good workflow, for me.

I used to have the illusion that "things could last forever" (an elastic concept at best), but after enough equipment bit the dust along the way, I accepted that all I could do was to buy what worked for me, and get on with the recording. The 24 is my current recording deck, and I hope it will stay that way for a decently long time.

Is there a future with this line? I don't know; only Tascam does, but I would guess that, like with so many things, the closer you get to the "perfect model", the closer to the end you get.

That's why I got a second DP24SD as a backup

C.

 

[lastmonk]

@mjk, if you been around long enough, and I think you have, you will remember when the conventional wisdom said there would not be a DP-01. There were once rumors that DAWs were so successful that the Tascam 2488 was the end of the line. When the Tascam DP 24 with the cd was released many said that would be the last installment of the Portastudio. Many industry analysts were shocked when the Tascam DP 24 was released. The Portastudio was supposed to be dead way back then. Well here we are.... The DAW was supposed to kill the portastudio back in the early 2000's.

As far as high track count. You know that's relative. At one point in time having 8 tracks was a really big deal. But now with digital recording and bouncing and sub mixing techniques high track count is truly in the eyes of the beholder. As I pointed out earlier most of the grammy winning records in existence on Earth were recorded on 24 or less tracks. 32 track recording was a pipe dream when most albums listened to today were being recorded.

I think there will be another Tascam Portastudio in the future because the Portastudio has always had a legitimate market, and it always will. It doesn't matter who holds the patents or who the company is at the time. If Gibson has it , and chooses not to do anything with it, the next company that gets it will. Contrary to the success of the DAW and the ubiquitous presence of Pro-tools , The Tascam Portastudio has been on the market for over 40 years

PortaStudio debuted in 1979. Cubase and Pro-tools were initially released in 1989. They've been trying to take out the Portastudio all this time. By the late 90's crowd wisdom was predicting that the Portastudio was dead. Here we are in 2021 and crowd wisdom and the DAW worshippers are still predicting the demise of the Portastudio

The fact of the matter is Cubase and Protools are not new they launched all the way back in 1989. I remember Cubase when it was only a Midi sequencer, and Protools when it did not have any midi capability at all.

So based on the fact that the Portastudio has pretty much held its own and been in production in one form or another for the last 40 years and competing with Cubase and Protools for the last 30 years my prediction is there will be another new Portastudio. It has always had a viable market and it has one now Its been in production for the last 40 years, and I suspect 40 years from now in one form or another it will still be here.

@-mjk- So here is what I'm going on about: Portastudio debuted in 1979, Cubase, Protools, in 1989. Currently there is a trend toward dedicated devices because of the low cost of SoC (System on a Chip) So the market is trending away from general purpose computers in Music Production and toward dedicated devices in Music Production. As evidenced by Akai's MPC series, Zoom's digital recorders, Elecktron's offerings, Rolands offerings, etc. BTW have you seen 1010music's Bluebox?

https://1010music.com/product/bluebox

All of which makes it highly likely that we will see a new Portastudio at some point in the future. And I'm hoping it has:

• 1 or 2 HDMI outs for the Tascam Video Display

• 16 to 24 combo XLR Inputs

• Support for Surround Mixes (at least 5.1)

• Support for Naming of the 24/32 Digital Channels that can be saved with each song

• Midi

@Cosmic Audacity is good. I use it in my workflow. I like its easy conversion to .mp3, I use it to grab 16 audio tracks from firewire, I use it to do very tedious audio crossfading, among other things. But audacity is not a DAW and it doesn't claim to be one. Its also very simple to use, and I personally know the creators of Audacity who happen to be totally cool folks. These DAWs have just gotten too complex overtime. They've gone from dozens of features to hundreds of features including the kitchen sink. They are big bloated, pieces of software now in comparison to their humble beginnings. Whereas The tascam portastudio just does high quality recording and editing in a very straight forward, no nonsense manner.

Music is still music, vocals, guitars, violins, oboes, organs, pianos, saxophones, keyboards, drums, etc. There really is no need to add hundreds of features to the recording process year in and year out. We really just need Record, FF, RW, Play, Stop The Daws have become big bloated, complex money grabs. They are pimping the $h#t out of musicians, singer/songwriters

 

[-mjk-]

Thanks for your reply @lastmonk and not taking my comment the wrong way. To be honest, I quit the business in 1997. I had been a professional recording engineer/producer of some small repute in Boston. I got sick of it and besides doing a remake of a Raspberries tune someone I know was working on, I hadn't sent foot in a studio from 1997 until I did a session with a Thai band in Taipei in 2008. As I wrote on my studio website: I totally missed the DAW revolution. I had been using Cool Edit in the 80s and I used an early version of Pro Tools to edit one of my singles (I think in 1995). When I decided to build a studio again I took a very hard look at recording in the 21st century given my background. I did not want to record with a mouse and keyboard. I bought a DP-32 (original, with MIDI). I cut lots of tracks with it using an analog console for a front end. Quickly I ended up at a brickwall when it came to mixing. Since then I've invested in a digital console and convinced a prominent software engineer to write an automation system for it. Now, I record in the DAW but it's just a multitrack recorder to me. I didn't know about the DP01 or even the DP-24/32 until I started looking around again at recording equipment. I'm just glad I didn't have to buy a Studer 24 track. The maintenance alone is a killer. But, I could see getting one for tracking some stuff. As long as I have both consoles I can do pretty much anything. The DP-32 gets used when it makes sense to use it.

I haven't seen much of anything in Taiwan. I heard about the Blue Box. It looks like it's good for someone making beats. I wouldn't have any use for something like that. There are some individuals who have imported the Model series, but I've never seen them in the stores. Same with stuff like reference monitors.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Tascam. They were on top of the game but they've lost their position. Uli Behringer took over that space from them with the X32, which has supplanted the mighty DM series digital consoles (which were better in their day than the X32). It wouldn't surprise me if Behringer came out with the ultimate Portastudio in the end. Sorry, I'm just rambling....

 

[lastmonk]

@-mjk- yes, yes, yes if you have some serious mixing, and mastering to do. If you are really wearing a significant mixing engineering hat, then by all means the DAWs are an affordable way to get that done, without buying the new large format digital mixers.

But for your average musician, singer, songwriter, glee club, gospel choir, garage band, community jazz band, camp fire girls, weekend musicians, school band directors ,composers, and arrangers the DAW software +Audio Interface + computer is just overkill These folks don't need automation, and high track counts, and 50 ways from sunday to bus audio. They just want to record themselves, their band, or choir etc and stream it over Youtube, and share it over Facebook or Twitter.

@-mjk- as you know the DAW originally started out as a somewhat simple and cheap alternative to expensive hardware recording and mixing , which could easily run in the thousands of dollars. At one point the portastudio was $2k. So to do recording the average musician was kind of pushed in that direction. But now, with DP 24 costing $399 and the Daw = Computer Cost + Audio Interface Cost + Daw Cost + Plugin Cost + Steep Learning Curve. costing in the thousands, Its become a bit much. And now with yearly upgrade costs, and annual subscription models on the rise , we're getting forced into a Pay as you Play ponzi scheme

If I were a Mix/Mastering Engineer I would probably just bite the bullet and go with the big digital mixer/recorder hardware solutions. They cost a lot more, but they last forever and its a one time cost and its a one time learning curve. Yes they take up more space, but if you really have serious mixing and mastering to do, you cannot beat those with respect to price,performance,reliability and longevity. If I had to go big, I'd really go big, I wouldn't mess around with the DAW hustle But for me as a musician, composer, and arranger the Tascam Portastudio is the most functional, practical, and legitimate solution on the market at any cost.

 

[Arjan P]

The Daws have become big bloated, complex money grabs. They are pimping the $h#t out of musicians, singer/songwriters

I don't know about 'The Daws', but Cubase is a fully functional digital studio with unlimited possibilities, including simple Play, Record, Undo. If needed it can be a simple digital recorder. And only gear sluts get pimped Oh, and let me also leave out the 'IMO'.

But for me as a musician, composer, and arranger the Tascam Portastudio is the most functional, practical, and legitimate solution on the market at any cost.

Ah, "for you". That's more like it.

 

[BazzBass]

we got sidetracked by comparing Portastudios to DAWs.

the QUESTION was will there be a new Portastudio.

Gibson own Teac/Tascam and from previous experience, I think they will NOT spend a red cent on R and D. They can barely stay afloat for the past 25 years, a QUARTER of a CENTURY. Dead man walking.
Maybe if they sell Tascam to Zoom or Akai they may have a new iteration,otherwise, nup.

 

[lastmonk]

@BazzBass

https://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/gibson-buys-teac-for-52-million-573312

Hmmm.... looks like there'll be some R&D to me.

Also didn't the Tascam model 16,24, etc come out after Gibson purchased Teac

Barely stay afloat I dunno, but buying teac for 52 million doesn't sound like a company that can barely stay afloat.

The projection I gave you is the right one. We will see a new Tascam Portastudio at some point in the future.

@Arjan P Yes Cubase is a full featured DAW. It has everything. I would say hundreds if not thousands of options and features. One would be hard pressed to find something Cubase cannot do with respect to Digital Audio Workstations. It has it all, and I mean all Have you upgraded to Cubase 11 pro yet? Do you plan to update to Cubase 12, 13, 14,15, 16, 17....... etc? Has it been optimized for the new Macs yet? Why not get to Nuendo and get the real power under the hood

Considering Cubase already has hundreds if not thousands of features, I wonder what their gonna do for Cubase 12, 12.5, and 13. Steinberg is probably working on those right now

Well, if there won't be a new Tascam Portastudio, we'll always be able to count on more features from Steinberg and Cubase.

@Arjan P have you noticed music is becoming more about what you 'see' and less about what you hear? Nice dual screen 32-48 inch monitor setups, plenty of big colorful audio tracks, and dozens, no hundreds of things to click, drag, toggle, resize, shuffle around, name and rename, hide, un-hide, tile, cascade and flash

In all seriousness I'm glad the DAWs are workin for you my friend. Like they say on my side of town if Cubase can't fix it, then it aint broke

 

[Arjan P]

@lastmonk You seem to write better than you read. My setup is in my signature, and some of my DAW recording results are also publicly available through this forum. There are also some of my 'Portastudio' results from the Akai days, available through the same Soundcloud account. I mean you can hear it there, nothing to see. https://www.tascamforums.com/forums/song-mixes-tracks-for-review-and-critique.44/ I'll leave it at that: Less talk - more music.