Model 24 Compression won't work and Main Fader does nothing

[Jimlin]

Hello,

I'm a recording musician who just bought the Model 24 to write, record and mix music without a DAW. I don't have any experience with a mixing board and everything is new to me.

I noticed, when I recorded drums, vocals or piano, and playback one of these tracks and turn the compression knob on, nothing happens and I'm getting no indicator lights. On track 11 and 12 they are always lighting up slightly when the knobs aren't engaged and even when there is nothing connected.
Is this a fault in the system or am I doing something wrong?
All the tracks are set to MTR, EQ works etc..

My main fader does also nothing, only indicating level outputs near the screen.

 

[Morgelec]

In the SOS (Sound on Sound mag) review of the Model 12 they point out that Tascam fixed the Compressor issue on 12. The problem on the 24 is that Tascam placed the compressors before the converters, in all instances...therefore you cannot use them during playback.
Check out the SOS review of the 24 and the 12 for in depth details.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Correct except in the case of the Model 24 the compressors are analog and are placed before the 3 way switch that “inserts” the playback from the multitrack recorder. In my opinion. Tascam really should have included a pre/post switch for this insert point for each channel.

In the model 12 the compressors are digital and are indeed selectable in terms of placement in the signal chain.

However there IS a reasonable workaround for Model 16 and 24 if you have a spare channel or two:

Let’s say you have recorded a bass on track 1 dry (no compression). You can pan track 1 full left, assign track 1 to sub bus, and run a physical 1/4 mono patch cable from Sub L out to the input of say channel 7.

You can then play with gain structures and EQ pre and postcomp across the two linked channels ... which actually opens up a range of possibilities to create different sounds. (Perhaps others can enilighten on EQ before comp or comp before EQ...)And it’s all happening in analog domain except the recording of the track itself.

Switch off channel 1’s assignment to the main bus to hear only the compressed signal coming down channel 7 or keep both assigned to main bus to hear parallel compression.

Once you have a compression setting that works well in tour mix you can then record it wet and replace track 1 if you need to free up channels.

 

[Jimlin]

Thank you for the replies. I don't understand any of it though, I'm sorry..

What do I exactly have to do, to be able to put a compressor on drums or vocals after recording and being able to monitor the sound?

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Ok.

You need a patch cable ( 1/4” mono both ends) ..,

Let’s assume:

Channel 1 = your current recording (what you want to compress)

Channel 7 = an empty channel (will be the place where you apply the compression)

steps:

1 Plug one end to of the cable to Sub Out Left, then other end into the input jack of Ch. 7

2. Pan channel 1 hard left, push the Sub button down (on) and the main button up (off) for channel 1, and vice versa for channel 7.

3. set all of the faders and input knobs to unity for now, and press play. signal flows down Chanel 1, out the sub, through the cable and then down channel 7....

4. Compressor knob on channel 7 will now work on your track 1 signal!

 

[Jimlin]

Thank you very much. I will try that.
Why this detour to get a compression in a mix? And why is there a compression knob on every channel anyway?
In a video of the Model 24 where someone from Tascam is explaining how the device works, he says ''you just dial in how much you want and you're all set''.

Or is your explanation purely for having compression in playback, hence the detour?
Forgive me if I don't understand how it works right away!

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Yes, the “detour” is only if you want to add compression to a track you already recorded... and it’s also a technique you can use to insert other outboard effect (external compressors, reverbs delays etc such as you may have on your pedal board)...

if you are recording live, and you turn up the compressor on a given channel, then that channel will be recorded with compression on to the MTR. But then you are committed to keeping that level of compression in your recording.

Fortunately, the first 50% of the knob’s range is fairly gentle, so you can use it as a limit protector without coloring your signal too much.

suggest study the circuit diagram in the manual to follow the path of the signals as it flows through your mixer.

good luck!

 

[Jimlin]

Thank you, I've read some more on the internet and it seems this device works exactly as an old analogue board. So only compression when tracking..
I will try your ''detour'' method with the bass and let you know how that worked out. Can I also do this in any possible way with a 4 track drum recording, adding compression to the kit?

All the best

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Well a whole drum kit is usually 4+ mics, so...

Either do it one track at a time and delete the the raw tracks on the SD card as you go (copy the raw track files onto your PC first so you always have them to go back to!)

Or if you have 5 free tracks and 5 patch cables, then I think by clever use of left and right sub outs AND the aux 1 and aux 2 sends, and the fx bus, then I would imagine you could add compression on up to 5 pre recorded tracks at once.

So kick, snare and 2 overheads for example, each with its own compression setting, plus the chance to re-EQ and boost or cut levels on each both before and after the compressor (being careful not to add to much noise or overloads).

But that’s probably pushing the limit of the machine as you only have 12 mono channel strips with compressors.

At a certain point one might want to use an outboard compressor with more controls, etc and send a sub mix back as a stereo 2 track.

Or just head on over to your DAW where you get nearly infinite possibilities...( but you leave the analog world...)

 

[Jimlin]

I think I will go for the pre set compressor and then track the drums or add the compression afterwards in the DAW.
Thank you for all the information.

 

[JSchmo_Bass]

Sure thing and good luck.

I do recommend you try the above - it’s not as complicated as it seems at first and you never know when these skills might come in handy even for live work.

I should have added that using the Aux buses as the sends presents a little more fiddle factor up front, BUT gives you another options, to pass everything though the main EQ before the compressor which has more shaping...you could almost notch a certain frequency to act as the compressors trigger..

Also I believe you can use either Sub or Aux sends method to also add one of the other effects such as reverb to the new version of your track. In this case just give up the 5th send (the fx themselves don’t work if you plug into the fx jack - it becomes a clean send) and it’s only one effect at a time. For example you could add both compression and some reverb to a snare track in one go to give it some real power.

I find I can get some really nice mixdowns very quickly after a jam session with my band on my 16 using this approach. The only hard thing I find is that I run out of channels sometimes, and also the “gain staging” to get the whole mix “loud” without adding background hiss takes a lot of work to get just right. That aspect seems like a real artform on an analog board, and it really starts with getting a good recording in the room and goes on from there....it’s a learning journey.

(the model 12, being all-digital after the pre amps, is definitely more forgiving and easier to use in these aspects)

 

[Jimlin]

Wow thank you!
I will save these words for later, when I'm more familiar with mixing. First I got to figure out what everything is and means.
I'm totally new to mixing. I went for the Model 24 because of the need of all channels.
4/5 track drums, bass, piano, 2 guitars, vocals and backing vocals are too many for the 12. I might overdub or add bongos/shakers and I want everything to be connected already, so I can keep my flow when writing and recording ideas.

I want to mix as much as possible on the Model too, so that I only have to bring in my computer in the last stages of a song. But again, all the time I don't know what's going on on the Model 24 as I don't have any kind of experience with mixing, routing, sub, faders etc.
Right now the only thing I know is recording a track and add effects to it.

Time will tell..

 

[Jimlin]

If you have more tips you want to share they are welcome sure enough.

 

[-mjk-]

and also the “gain staging” to get the whole mix “loud” without adding background hiss takes a lot of work to get just right.

That is really something that should be addressed in Mastering. If you have an outboard limiter that can help bring up your final mix level.

And thanks for being so helpful!