Model 12 Freezes Ableton after ~3h30min of running

[Max Relic]

@LCGomes, thanks for giving us more details to base our collective mumbling on
I must admit it's a very specific situation and I guess not many users here have had the opportunity to come across it; I for one haven't connected my Model 12 to USB until a few days ago so couldn't speak from first-hand experience.

Ableton is running the Model12 at 48khz with 128 buffer. I have zero dropouts on my live session when running.

I would increase the buffer length for better stability unless your priority is low latency for real-time interaction with the DAW.

Once Live freezes, so does the Model 12. The input LEDs on the Model 12 don't respond to analog inputs anymore, for example.

This happened on me when:
- connecting the Model 12 to the iMac using an active-buffered 10m extension cable (it usually works with my synths but not the Model 12);
- connecting the Model 12 to USB with a short and good cable while it was running a playback (I did it!);
- starting Ableton (with undefined settings) while the Model 12 was correctly connected to USB and running a playback.

When I attached the Model 12 (in stop) to USB and there was a bitrate or bitdepth mismatch with the Mac Audio settings I got a popup message on LCD but no freeze.

if I start SD record and then start Ableton, the Model 12 will freeze. I suspect this is because the Model 12 will "lock" to the computer's clock somehow. If it's already recording, it would have locked to some kind of internal clock prior to attempting to lock to the computer, and that will trigger a software fault.

That's consistent with my observations. Further investigation is needed to troubleshoot the OP issue.

(to be continued)

 

[Max Relic]

Hm, wouldn’t that mean that the Model12 would shut down after 3,5 hours and not the DAW?
But, I can also see in the manual that the Model12 does indeed have a 2gb max limit, so you might be on to something here.

I had a look at how Tascam manages the 2GB filesize boundary, for this purpose I made a 5 hours recording session on the Model 12 at 48kHz/24-bit. On the Model 12 all tracks are recorded individually, the only stereo files created on SD are the exported Main Mix. Common to other devices that deal with huge files, when the recording on SD reaches the size of 2.15 GB a new file is created seamlessly; a numeric index is pre-pended to the tracks filename, I would guess one could fill a huge SD card with a single loooong song.

Look at the song folder

 

[LCGomes]

I would increase the buffer length for better stability unless your priority is low latency for real-time interaction with the DAW.

That's another whole can of worms (Ableton seems to perform better at lower latency on the new Apple Silicon computers as it engages the performance cores instead of the efficiency ones)

Either way, 128 is the minimum for me as Ableton is being used as a digital insert on Model 12's I/O - e.g. for processing live vocals and synths. It's been a breeze, though. Super solid setup, apart from the timed freezing.

Filesize on SD recordings is not a problem either, consistent with my findings!

In regards to being a very specific situation: those using the Model 12 and Ableton in a studio setup will probably keep it on for hours and hours on a typical studio day, no? I would expect them to encounter this issue too...

 

[Max Relic]

@LCGomes Good to know, we are getting the picture one piece at a time.
The experiment on long recordings springs from a speculation we did, and I hope it will be of help for someone in future; the next in queue is Will the Model 12 + Ableton stand stand-by recording for more than 3h30' ?

those using the Model 12 and Ableton in a studio setup will probably keep it on for hours and hours on a typical studio day, no?

We don't know how many users here run a Model 12 with Ableton, maybe there are more that use a different DAW and didn't experience that particular freeze.
Did you post the question on the Gearspace forum?

 

[LCGomes]

I was hoping I would remain a lurker on Gearspace after 10 years. But I created an account just to ask this.
i'm tempted to order a new unit from Thomann just to see if it has the same behaviour!

 

[Max Relic]

@LCGomes, I'll try an attempt to replicate thefreeze issue, can you please share how do you set your system? How many channels on the M12 with send/return, how many plugins per channel, effects type...

 

[LCGomes]

As vanilla as it gets! Ableton 12 default project, Tascam Model 12 as input and output, 128 buffer.
Just let it sit there for 3h30!

 

[Max Relic]

Can you confirm if the Model 12 is actively streaming audio (i.e. as a plain mixer with some audio input going through), or is it in complete stand-by? In other words, are Ableton plugins put at work during all the time (hence cpu load is >0)?

Last question: what is the USB cable length?

 

[LCGomes]

USB-C Cable is 1m.
Yes it's actively streaming audio, and CPU % > 0!
What I meant is transport does not need to be running for the freeze to occur.

 

[Max Relic]

transport does not need to be running for the freeze to occur

In fact, I was implying your Model 12 is working as a PA mixer and not necessarily as a multitrack recorder. IMO CPU load is a factor as well as USB activity, to reproduce the issue you reported it's necessary to know as much details as possible.

 

[LCGomes]

got it. CPU load is always between 6-12%. No dropouts / spikes.

 

[Max Relic]

Did a live mix test session:
- 4 live inputs sent from the Model 12 to Ableton 11 (into stereo tracks 1 & 2);
- applied 2 effect plugins per track and added some aux effects and a spectrum analyzer plugin on the master track to keep the cpu busy;
- sent all back to the Model 12, stereo tracks to channels 1 to 4 + master out on channels 9/10.
Interface was set at 48kHz/24bit, buffer size 128; run it for 5 hours with not a single glitch or hiccup, CPU (4-core i5) load was constantly around 8-10% while doing other usual tasks like browsing the net, reading ebooks...

Sorry I couldn't reproduce the crash, but am happy to have verified how well the Model 12 integrates in a small-size home studio.

@LCGomes, I suggest you contact TASCAM on their Facebook page, they seem responsive there.
There is also a very active Model 12/16/24 users group where you could post your issue.

 

[LCGomes]

Thanks for the thorough analysis. Will do just that!

 

[Max Relic]

Just to be sure, did you install the latest firmware 1.42?

 

[LCGomes]

yes!

 

[Max Relic]

@LCGomes,
You got replies on the FB users group.