Looking to Purchase

[Peter Batah]

Hello all.

What is the most that I should pay for a used (very clean) DM-3200

Comes with both a IF-FW/DMMKII and the ID-AD/DM

Ballpark figure(s) are ok

Thank you so much

Much appreciated

 

[cmaffia]

Ballpark figure....$1200-$1400 assuming there are no other issues. Sometimes seen for less but what I've quoted is the top price.

 

[Peter Batah]

Great cmaffia. The DM-3200 should be a good match for my older Soundscape Red32 which comes with 3 TDIF connectors. I still haven't figured this out though. If the DM-3200 has 16 mic ins and I route them through TDIF to my DAW, what can I route to the remaining 8 TDIF outs.

Thank you so much for your assistance. I am coming from an analog time late seventies. So all of this stuff is very alien to me. In fact, quite intimidating

 

[cmaffia]

You said the DM3200 you're looking to purchase comes with the IF-FW/DM-MKII expansion card?

A DM3200 using the IF-FW/DM-MKII is the most seamless and efficient way to record to Windows or Mac DAW workstation. The DM3200's 16 Mic/Line channels can be routed internally through the IF-FW/DM-MKII expansion card to your DAW (firewire connection from the IF-FW/DM-MKII expansion card to your PC/Mac).

Many forum users utilize the TDIF slots to add more input/output channels (most use a MOTU 2408MK2). I'm just not sure what your intentions are by integrating your Soundscape hardware unless you plan on using it as your DAW rather than a PC or Mac based DAW? If that's the case then you won't use (or need) the IF-FW/DM-MKII expansion card in this equation. If it were me, I'd use a PC/Mac based DAW workstation.

 

[Peter Batah]

Yes the DM-3200 that I am looking at does come with the IF-FW/DMMKII expansion card. Although, the Soundscape Red32 is basically obsolete now. SSL has completely ceased selling or supporting the Soundscape product line, it is still touted as being in a class of its own. If you are interested in reading more I will provide an SOS review link. The article may be a little old. The last and final version of the Soundscape editor was 7.2.

http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/soundscape-32-editor-v5

I was thinking that I might route all instruments, mics, etc and record through the DM-3200 and then to the Red32 via TDIF. I would also like to use the Soundscape version 7.2 mixer / editor.

Some might say that I should possibly forget the DM-3200 and do everything "In the Box" Then I imagine that I would still require some outboard gear in order to record to my Red32.

I still like the physical feel of a console though.

I am sure that I am probably not making much sense. I have so much catching up to do. My apologies!

Thank you very much for being so patient with me cmaffia. I really do appreciate all of the help.
Lord knows that I can use some of that at the moment.

Peter

 

[cmaffia]

It comes down to what your needs are. A DM with firewire card matched with PC/Mac DAW is the best workflow in my opinion. You can mix inside and outside of the box with the DM3200. Inside the box would use the DAW mixer outputting your stereo mix back to the DM3200. Outside the box would route your DAW tracks to the DM3200 mixer which allows you to do old school through as well as having access to your DAW's plug-ins.

 

[Peter Batah]

So flexible.

When you say "matched with PC/Mac DAW" are you referring to apps such as Cubase, Nuendo etc..

In my case, that would be the software that comes with my Red32, correct? Where, if I choose, I can mix and use plugins, VST instruments and so on.

How about my earlier question:

I still haven't figured this out though. If the DM-3200 has 16 mic ins and I route them through TDIF to my DAW, what can I route to the remaining 8 TDIF outs.

Because the three TDIF connectors give me access to 3 x 8 channels. Can I for example use the line in with an electric guitar or a keyboard and send those down TDIF to my DAW?

Sorry about all the questions. I could understand how answering them could be quite frustrating.

I guess once I get started I will determine what best works for me.

 

[cmaffia]

Yes, I was referring to Cubase, Nuendo, etc. If you routed signal from the DM to the Red32 and back (essentially using the Red32 as a host) I suppose that would work. Just not sure if there would be any latency.

 

[Peter Batah]

So just to be clear. And of course I do not know what I am talking about. I can route 16 microphones through TDIF and use the remaining 8 for anything else that I have plugged into the DM

Record them to my DAW and even route them back to my DM if I wanted. Oh boy, now I am really confused. Hope to have the DM in approx 2 weeks. I am sure that I will have more questions then. I am afraid that my wife and children will not be seeing much of me for a while.

 

[cmaffia]

You've confused me . Again why would you use TDIF to track to your DAW when you can route any signal from the mixer to your DAW using the If-fw/DM mkii. The expansion card essentially is the DM's audio interface which gives you 32 inputs/outputs at rates up to 96khz to and from your computer DAW via FireWire connection. Maybe you're using the word "DAW" for your Red32? If you want to go to and from your Red32 via TDIF you can do that instead. This is how Tascam's X48 is connected however you have the coveted FireWire expansion card and personally I would use that with a PC instead.

The board is extremely flexible. You can route every input / output to just about anywhere. I'm just not following your workflow. I think it would be best just to try and digest the board on its own to your DAW. Once you understand the routing, you can start to integrate outboard gear.

 

[Peter Batah]

I absolutely agree with this statement:

"I think it would be best just to try and digest the board on its own to your DAW. Once you understand the routing, you can start to integrate outboard gear."

I am not entirely certain that my DAW (Soundscape Red32) will even recognize whatever information is coming in via Firewire. Unless that is processed at the operating system level. Which, in my case, is Windows XP. Soundscape Editor version 7.x will not run in a 64bit environment.

Here is the Soundscape rear panel for what it's worth

 

[Arjan P]

So just out of interest, what is the DM replacing, how did you use the Red 32 up till now?

And I think cmaffia has a valid point. Your current setup is DM - Red32 - Host PC for editing, right? Why not use a PC with the IF-FW for 32 channels I/O instead - unless learning curve is an issue and you want to continue with the Red32.

 

[Peter Batah]

Hello Arjan. I am open to all possibilities at this point. You asked how I was using the Soundscape Red32 up to this point. Well, do I have a story for you. I purchased the Red32 and Mixpander 9 back in 2005 which included a JL Cooper CS-102 control surface. At a cost of $5,000.oo. Which at the time was a steal. I never, ever, and I mean ever recorded a single note through it. You heard right. What a shame. Life just got in the way I suppose. I decided that now is my time. I stopped writing / recording / performing back in the early eighties. I want to slowly make up for some of that lost time. I am not getting any younger.

So you see, like it or not, I am going to have to deal with a steep learning curve either way. As far as my wanting to stick with the Red32. Well, I have followed it's progression and what other owners / users had to say on the Soundscape forum. Apparently, this is the real deal. Has Pro Tools beat hands down. But, for what it is that I plan on doing. It really doesn't matter what path I take. I am "old school" and the feel of a physical console seems like the right fit.

Note: Understandably, there is very little gear around anymore that is compatible with the Red32. As a matter of fact the Red32 is only being used as an I/O. The Mixpander 9 with its 9 DSP's is what is doing all of the heavy lifting. Which brings me back to the DM. What happens in the event that my Red32 or Mixpander should fail. Back to square one. By the way, I have not purchased the DM yet!

My apologies for the very long-winded response. I hope that I gave you a better insight as to where I'm at.

Peter

 

[Peter Batah]

The Soundscape ReD32 uses something called streams. My understanding is that I could wire everything through the DM. EG. guitars, mics, keyboards etc then bring it in to my DAW SS32 via TDIF. If I choose not to go the Firewire path. I guess what I am really looking for at the end of the day is some much needed guidance. The lack of knowledge and experience can lead to a profound feeling of helplessness. The last time I did any recording / mixing was on a Soundcraft Serie Two a very long time ago

 

[cmaffia]

Here's my guidance to you. There's many ways to skin a cat and it can include integrating your Red32 (which you've never used in the 12 years you've owned it). In my opinion, its inclusion results in a redundant and inefficient workflow when you have an IF-FW/DM MK2 installed. A DM with a firewire expansion card connected to a computer based DAW makes your Red32 obsolete. The claim that the Red32 "has Pro Tools beat hands down" sounds thick of fanboy forum glorification which I totally understand. I also understand the urge to re-purpose old hardware but to me, this workflow is regressive with little to no benefit. The basic PC/Mac DAW functionality is fairly easy to grasp. Your real learning curve is going to be with the DM3200.

A valid reason for using the Red32 would be you currently don't have a computer and your budget doesn't allow for the added expense of a new PC and DAW software. There are lots of affordable options for both. Reaper is an excellent DAW without the bells and whistles and is free. If you don't want the nagging evaluation notice during the splash screen, the license is extremely affordable. There are also different flavors of Cubase ranging from $99 and upward. PC' workstations are more "bang for the buck" than the Mac platform.

If you were to go the DM3200/Red32 route, you could certainly use TDIF connectivity. You say the Red32 OS is XP? There are XP drivers for the IF-FW/DM MK2 but you will need a compatible firewire card installed in the Red32 to use it. Does it have one and if so, is it compatible with the IF-FW/DM MK2? If it doesn't have a firewire port, does the Red32 have expansion slots like a computer so you could install one? Even if you answered "yes" to every question, I'm just not sure how well the all the required drivers would integrate with the Red32 DAW software and it's XP OS. Too many unknowns.

Playing Devil's advocate here: Do you even need a DM3200 or even a dedicated control surface? You could instead spend your money on a decent audio interface, a MIDI keyboard controller and a powerful computer based DAW. With that setup you'd still be miles ahead from where you are today. It all depends on what you REALLY need.

 

[Peter Batah]

@cmaffia I agree with the fact that my ReD32 is obsolete. Not that is it relevant but I do have a PC (HP xw8200 running Windows XP, again obsolete) It has the Mixpander 9 and ReD PCI controller installed in it. I could never use either card in a Windows 64 bit environment. So, as it stands now, breaking the 4gig memory barrier is out of the question. And I do have an M-Audio Axiom 61. Still in the box. Pathetic isn't it?

We can go at this forever and I have taken far too much of your time already. Perhaps, this is merely my attempt and re-living a time gone for good. Not sure I can ever get used to the point and click thing. But I suppose that it is inevitable in this day and age. I have a few weeks to think about it. I will consider all that you and others have said and make a decision. I can't tell you how much I value our conversation. Peter

 

[cmaffia]

You could always go the Tascam all-in-one route.
http://tascam.com/product/dp-32sd/

 

[Peter Batah]

Any clue as to how much the DP-32SD is worth? Ballpark? I will try posting on the Soundscape forum. Perhaps someone can still use spare parts seeing as they are no longer available. Might be worth a try. I had my heart set on the DM-3200. Not entirely sure why. Watched some video tutorials and that really peaked my interest. Thinking with my heart and not my head. Could that be. It's happened before.

 

[cmaffia]

$549 at most music retail stores.

 

[Peter Batah]

Oh did I mention that the DM-3200 that I was interested in comes with a Flight case (absolute truth). That must be what attracted me to the unit. I thought that a little humor would be nice this morning. I can always take "Peter's Comedy Revue" on the road. Have a wonderful day sir. You have been a great companion as I trash about in my sea of confusion.