LIVE vs MTR

[kenact]

I was getting ready to live mix and record a band last week, using my Model 16 into an old version of Cubase, which uses a USB Dongle. I set all channels to Live. The laptop I use has 2 USB 2 ports and 2 USB 3 ports. I have the Cubase dongle in a USB 2 port and the Model 16 in a USB 3 port. Everything seemed to be working until I tried arming the Cubase channels to record. When I started recording, there was no signal to the tracks. I didn't have time to diagnose the problem, as the band was getting ready to start.

Now for the pleasant surprise, even though all the channels were set to LIVE, I was able to arm all the channels on the board a do a multi-track recording to the SDXC card. I recorded 5 microphones, a keyboard and a bass on to separate tracks.

This leaves me with a question. I thought I could only create a Multi Track recording with the channels in MTR mode, but if I can do a Multi Track recording with all channels in LIVE mode, What is gained by having the channels in MTR mode?

 

[Max Relic]

@kenact,
Now for the pleasant surprise, even though all the channels were set to LIVE, I was able to arm all the channels on the board a do a multi-track recording to the SDXC card.

That's the way it works, record individual armed tracks + the stereo main mix (tracks 15-16). But probably this is trivial respect to the Cubase question: did you troubleshoot it?

 

[kenact]

@Max Relic,
That's the way it works, record individual armed tracks + the stereo main mix (tracks 15-16). But probably this is trivial respect to the Cubase question: did you troubleshoot it?

The board doesn't live with me. I won't have access until tomorrow, several hours before the next show I'll be recording. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to figure out.

 

[-mjk-]

I suggest that you read the entire user manual though in the meantime. Understanding "Live" vs "MTR" is fundamental to the successful operation of the mixer. If you don't know that, there is a lot more you need to know.

 

[shredd]

Not that it's any of my bizniz - or that I'm some sort of expert who merits instructing others...so don't be offended...

But I gotta agree w/MJ. In the early days of PortaStudios (I'm talking about 244 days), a smart-ysh user with any experience at all with sound gear could get off the ground in minutes.
Nowadays: the gear is light-years advanced beyond those days, with layer after layer of capabilities and features and settings and routings and and and...

SO: the bottom line is: RTM! They're not always written terribly well or aren't the most user-friendly doc's ever...but trying to use a DP-XX or a ModelXX without thoroughly familiarizing yourself because you've run sound or a board before is like expecting to fly an airliner without being taught how, because you useta fly kites as a kid...

 

[ButchA]

I have very rarely (if at all) recorded LIVE versus MTR. All my stuff has been mic'd or DI'd straight into the the MTR.

Live, causes way too much interference... A loud car might rumble up your street. Your cat might "meow" at the wrong moment....

 

[Max Relic]

Live vs MTR has nothing to do with interference, in fact it's just related to selecting the source for input: live signal from rear jacks versus what has been recorded on SD. A sensitive microphone recorded in a non-treated room with an open window on a busy road, that is related with interference.

 

[salty james]

If you're in MTR and you're tracking. When you're done with a take you can go back and not have to mute / switch etc anything, just press play.
That's nice.
Also in MTR, all the channels are silent unless armed to record.... Also nice.

And to whomever is doing it: stop telling us to RTM... obviously you read it. That's why we're here to have you tell us what we need to know.

There are two types of guys in the world. Those who read manuals and those who get stuff done.

*puts on flame suit.

 

[kenact]

Just to be clear, in my situation I am live recording different bands every week, in an outdoor space. I'm not doing "takes" in a studio. I am experienced with recording and live mixing. I'm not a kite flyer, and I'm not trying to fly a 747, even though I've played flight simulator.

 

[Mark Richards]

@salty james, well not quite.
In MTR mode, the channel record buttons have to be disengaged before playback, otherwise it can sometimes create a really big "oh s**t!" moment during overdubs and final mixing.

When the Model xx is in MTR Mode with the channel record disengaged, any tracks with signal are present at the channel inputs and audible unless the faders are down or none of the channel routing switches are engaged.

I think there are a couple of additional guys (and gals) in our world:
Those who would like to get stuff done, and so create sticky threads to avoid having to answer the same questions over and over; and those who take advantage of the wealth of practical information the sticky threads provide.

 

[kenact]

FYI, I do read manuals, but if I read every page of every manual for every piece of hardware or software I use (cameras, computers, amplifiers, drum machines, guitars, audio interfaces, lighting controllers, video projectors, microphones, mixers, image editors, electronic drums, synthesizers, video editors, fog machines, audio editors, etc.), I'll be reading manuals for the next 5 years.

 

[Max Relic]

There is a third type of guy (mostly seen on forums), those who can't get things done and ask questions whose answers can be found in the manuals.
No need to wear flame suit, we are civilized people

@Mark Richards , You beat me on time

 

[shredd]

FYI, I do read manuals, but if I read every page of every manual for every piece of hardware or software I use (cameras, computers, amplifiers, drum machines, guitars, audio interfaces, lighting controllers, video projectors, microphones, mixers, image editors, electronic drums, synthesizers, video editors, fog machines, audio editors, etc.), I'll be reading manuals for the next 5 years.

Yeah...why bother to learn to use/understand the equipment you rely on, when you can simply glom onto others' knowledge (who HAVE taken the time to learn how to use said gear)?!? Gawd ferbyd you help YOURSELF rather than expecting others to do it for you!!!

 

[Mark Richards]

Hey guys, before this goes sideways, remember the original question:
If "Live" Mode prints to the MTR, why use "MTR" Mode?

I took time away from, as @salty james calls it, "getting stuff done", (then and subsequently) to answer that in my initial post (now moved to the Tips & Tricks Sticky Thread).

Whether that answer satisfied the OP, I don't know, since the OP didn't bother to acknowledge my effort.

I am live recording different bands every week, in an outdoor space.

Had the OP said at the outset what was said in his post #10, it would have better informed the discussion, yes?

if I can do a Multi Track recording with all channels in LIVE mode, What is gained by having the channels in MTR mode?

I think the question legitimate from someone with limited experience using this FOH mixer; and is answered easily enough.

 

[-mjk-]

Buckle up.

And to whomever is doing it: stop telling us to RTM...

I always say, if you want to talk trash about me, make sure I hear it because I want to enjoy it too. So next time, just tag me Salty. No need to infer.

FYI, I do read manuals, but if I read every page of every manual for every piece of hardware or software I use (cameras, computers, amplifiers, drum machines, guitars, audio interfaces, lighting controllers, video projectors, microphones, mixers, image editors, electronic drums, synthesizers, video editors, fog machines, audio editors, etc.), I'll be reading manuals for the next 5 years.

This is the best attempt at justifying relying on someone else having read the documentation that I have ever seen. Thanks for being honest and admitting that you would much rather post a question here than look it up for yourself. I have an e-ink tablet and I have PDF user manuals for every device I currently use, loaded in the tablet. It's in my studio with me and out on the road wherever I go. I'm often using different types of action cameras, microphones, drones, etc.. The truth is, it takes far less time to search a PDF file than it does to come to the forum and type out a question. And, I can get the answer I need instantly instead of having to wait for someone to reply. This kind of offline task assignment workflow doesn't really work in the end. The poster can spend days, up to never, before the answer is found.

Then there comes the multiple-thread cross posting that the moderators have to clean up.

So @kenact, we're sorry that your time is too precious to read all the manuals. But what I'm really sorry for is the fact that you consider everyone else's time to be worthless and available to you to squander. If you own all that stuff than you can afford to hire a PA to assist you.

If it were up to me, I would require that the new thread creation process presented a series of questions that the poster would have to answer in the affirmative before allowing the thread to be created. Questions like: "Have you thoroughly read the User Manual?" "Have you searched the User Manual for keywords related to your problem?" Even though I suspect that a number of posters wouldn't be forthright with their answers, the honest ones would most likely go back and learn how to search for themselves and use the forum for higher level troubleshooting and workflow improvement. But, it's not up to me.

obviously you read it. That's why we're here to have you tell us what we need to know.

I hope you read what the OP said not even a full hour later (that didn't age well at all). I'm here to help too, but not waste my time with lazy people. So please, feel free Salty. Have at it. But remember, you're dealing with someone who things RTM is a time waster and normally those types will suck the life out of you.

I'm bowing out ladies and gentlemen. I'm turning off notifications for this post. Any and all future interactions on this thread will be in the capacity of a forum moderator.

 

[-mjk-]

Had the OP said at the outset what was said in his post #10, it would have better informed the discussion, yes?

Yes Mark, but you are assuming that the OP values your time.

 

[kenact]

FYI: I said on the very first line of my original post "I was getting ready to live mix and record a band last week". I didn't suggest I was in a studio.

I asked what I feel is a legitimate question, and the amount of condescension from the forum members who have chosen to respond, is amazing.

I apologize if anyone feels I've wasted their time. I won't do it again. Going forward, I'll do my own research elsewhere.

 

[Mark Richards]

[1] I was getting ready to live mix and record a band last week. Post #1

[2] if I can do a Multi Track recording with all channels in LIVE mode, What is gained by having the channels in MTR mode? Post#1

[3] I am live recording different bands every week, in an outdoor space. Post #10

[4] I didn't suggest I was in a studio. Post #18

@kenact
[1] + [2] does not equal [4].
However, [3] + [1] would indeed imply [4]; which might then logically extrapolate to [2].
But absent a swami turban, how could we know these things if we're only given [1] + [2]?

But enough math; why pick nits?

As I wrote previously (post #14), "I think the question legitimate from someone with limited experience using this FOH mixer; and is answered easily enough."

@kenact , [2] does imply an absence of experience making full use of the FOH mixer's capabilities.
Thus the attempt to enlighten in my original/expanded post (now moved by the mods to the "Tips & Tricks" sticky).

Be that as it may, and speaking only for my own participation, we are left in the dark as to whether or not the effort made to answer [2] had been helpful in advancing your knowledge. That, my friend, is simply rude.

I guess as you've moved on, you won't see this.

But it's now unburdened me to have written it, so thanks.

 

[-mjk-]

I have moved @Mark Richards post to the Sticky Thread Tips and Tricks section of this forum. It can now be found here. I updated the post list for the Sticky Thread.

 

[salty james]

Shoot guys. I was joking!

...mostly. haha