DM3200 - need more physical outputs; any suggestions?

[snafu]

Hahaha - that's a good one I will definitively check this one out! I can almost see the intense look, trying to find a decision, saying: "No. 1 had bit more bottom, y'know, and I think I like the way the mids are bit more tight than in that second one, though I tend to like more the highs of No. 2 ..." Priceless, I'd say

 

[waterstrum]

Yikes, that is pretty insulting and demeaning to the client.
Kapt'n... I thought you were a guitar player.
If you were recording at another studio, would you want them to mess with you like that?
Sounds like bad studio ethics.
Not a fan of this concept.
Where is the "don't like" button?

 

[captdan]

Relax - I was kidding. In fact, I 'borrowed' the concept from my previous life as a cinematographer. One of my favorite gaffers (chief lighting technician) would use a 'C47' on annoying producers who couldn't make up their minds, causing delays, overtime, budget over-runs and unnecessary expense. Here's how it worked:

After we'd get the set lit and tweaked, the producer would interrupt and ask about a particular 'shadow' on a wall. The gaffer would pick a light, put his hand on the switch, and flick a C47 (clothespin) On/Off, asking which effect the producer preferred. He/she usually picked 'OFF,' but not always.

BTW, these sorts of studio gags are meant for amiable, friendly situations where people aren't afraid to laugh at themselves. I would hope this forum is of similar inclination.

CaptDan

 

[waterstrum]

Thanks for the reply.
I think I over-reacted.
Reminds me of a session where we went in to tune a flat pitch on a vocal track.
After performing the adjustment, everyone agreed that it sounded much better.
It turned out that the adjustment was made on an adjacent track that was muted.
I get where you are coming from.
A toast to humor!

 

[captdan]

Hah! See? These things actually work.

(I love stories like these. )

CaptDan

 

[kvmoore]

Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum and this is my first post.

Anyhow, I'm in the same situation as the original poster, except with a DM4800 instead of a DM3200. I understand I have more expansion options and more flexibility with the DM4800. However, I was thinking of option #3 myself. If-an/dm cards and expansion slots aside, both DM models come standard with 3 TDIF I/O ports which is equivalent to 24 channels in and out.

With that said, I was thinking of the idea of having 3 MOTU2408s. Each one would provide 8 channels of analog to TDIF conversion, thus giving 24 additional analog inputs to the console and possibly 24 channels of ADAT outputs from the console if needed. However, in order for all of these digital boxes to work together, should they all be synced together via wordclock? I would think the MOTU boxes be slaved to a master wordclock signal generated and sent out from the DM3200/DM4800 console into a wordclock distribution box which would have one wordclock input (wordclock sent from the DM) and several wordclock outputs (to distribute the signal to each MOTU device while maintaining integrity of the signal).

Am I right? Is this possible?

 

[jamsire]

I would think the MOTU boxes be slaved to a master wordclock signal generated and sent out from the DM3200/DM4800 console into a wordclock distribution box which would have one wordclock input (wordclock sent from the DM) and several wordclock outputs (to distribute the signal to each MOTU device while maintaining integrity of the signal).

Am I right? Is this possible?

Hi and welcome.

I have no experience with the MOTU boxes except for my awesome MTPAV MIDI Mergers. Though I do understand their power and resourcefulness.

I use a HOSA Word clock for the few things I have that can be sync'd - The DM4800, a Behringer ADA800, and a Tascam IF-TAD to ADAT Converter to an SM Pro 8 Analog in breakout box (on standby if need be, for sale if anyone wants to buy!). The HOSA box is discontinued, but I'm sure a few eBay auctions show up from time to time.

Everything goes to the HOSA box. Goes up to 96K - I'm happy. Cost me $50. You can certainly get others, but for my setup in my house in my world - it's perfect. Some may say you no longer need clocks - and I suspect with new systems and configurations that might be true, but I have it it and I use it.

Outputs, outputs, outputs!! Where do that all go so fast?????

 

[TascMan]

Hi kv, welcome to the forum.
Buying three 2408s will work. Make sure they are the MK3 versions. You can slave their clocks directly from the TDIF signal coming from the DM, no Word Clock connectors needed.

That's a lot of unused TDIF. I would personally suggest One 2408 MK3 and two other boxes that have 8 analog ins and 1 ADAT out. (probably newer and cheaper than used 2408s) Connect both of these to the ADATS in on the 2408, slaving the clock signal from the 2408 (which would be getting it from the DM over TDIF), and then connect all three TDIF ports from the 2408 into the DM. TDIF Bank one (CHs 1-8) would be the 2408's analog inputs, TDIF Bank two (TDIF CHs 9-16) would be one of the other 8 channel converters coming in over ADAT, and TDIF Bank Three (TDIF Chs 17-24) would be the third 8 channel converter. Man that's a whole lotta I/O.

 

[kvmoore]

Thank you both Jamsire and TascMan.

Tascman, I've done some research on this idea shortly after my previous post and came up with the exact alternative you suggested as far as only one 2408 and two 8 channel analog to ADAT converters goes.

Thanks for clarifying the 2408mk3 model allows wordclock over TDIF. That's just the answer I was looking for, hoping that would eliminate the need for an external workclock sync box.

However I do have one other question. If I go with one 2408 and two 8 channel converters, the wordclock signal would be passed down from the TDIF cables to the 2408 and then daisy chained to the two converters as you've just described. On the other hand, if I were to go with three 2408s, each of the 2408s would receive a fresh wordclock signal directly from the console via TDIF cable, thus making the DM also act as a wordclock distributor whereas each motu would receive the clock signal in parallel, I would think. With that said, would 3 MOTU2408s sync better and more reliably than 1 motu2408 and 2 converters with daisy chained wordclock? Just curious. Either way, I want go with whatever option is the most reliable as well as affordable.

Thanks again.

 

[TascMan]

They will all sync perfectly, whether you use one 2408 or three 2408s. The clock signal is imbedded within the TDIF and the ADAT signal, no matter how may units you have put together. The difference between this and having jitter issues with several (many) separate units daisy chaining Word Clock over BNC is that the voltage signal drops when you daisy chain over many BNC connections. But you are clocking from one unit to the next; any discrepancies in the Word clock voltages are going to be corrected from one unit to the next within each unit. Could you do this then with 50 units chained together? Not sure....

But let's be clear; I am not a digital mathematician, nor have I built any of these devices. I am only telling you this from the understanding I have. It's not completely out of my ass, but I am no paid professional on the subject either. I do have several pieces of digital equipment and I have them all synced to the DM over the AES/EBU and S/Pdif connections, as well as the ADAT and TDIF connections from the DM. I use no BNC connections at all. I even send them through an old midiman DigiPatch 12X6 first. No problems here.

 

[kvmoore]

Thanks for your very kind and informative reply. This digital synchronization stuff is new to me as well and I'm learning a lot about it right now from research I've done on it as well as from you since I've never built such a system but plan on doing so when funds allow. It's really great to know the clock signals are embedded when connecting units directly. This would make things easier for me by not having to deal with BNC connections and external sync boxes which tend to make the whole process more expensive than it need to be. Now I guess all I have to do is get a 2408 and two 8 channel analog to ADAT converters and call it a day. And if I decide later to add more analog ins, add a couple of if-an/dm cards and another analog to ADAT converter (to connect directly to the DM's ADAT input).

With the TDIF ports adding 24 additional inputs, it's possible to have as many as 80 analog inputs on a DM4800 console with the firewire card installed (72 input if you have the 2seemy VGA out mod installed in a slot as well)!!! That's great if you have a lot of samplers, synths, and drum machines in your studio that have a lot of separate outputs. You'd never have to repatch your studio again. Simply change the routing configuration within the console for each project you work on.

These are great times we live in technologically!

 

[TascMan]

Agreed. Btw, the 2 see my vga is internal it does not take up a slot.

 

[kvmoore]

Cool!

 

[Arjan P]

The difference between this and having jitter issues with several (many) separate units daisy chaining Word Clock over BNC is that the voltage signal drops when you daisy chain over many BNC connections.

TascMan you give really great advice, but I have to correct you on this tiny detail.. BNC Wordclock makes use of a 75 Ohm coaxial transmission system, and because of this there is no voltage drop issue. This, provided the correct cable and terminations are used ofcourse.

 

[TascMan]

Thanks for the correction. I knew it was a 75Ohm coaxial cable as I have actually built several over the years just for this use. I used to have a Lucid Gen192X for clocking. But I felt that adding more and more devices via "T"ing off from each BNC device would eventually cause a signal drop from the originating transmission point and I was just trying to use that scenario as an example. That part might not be correct, although I am sure signal fluctuations do happen when several device are connected this way. It is explained as such in just about every BNC WC connected device's manual. Here's a good article about what I was explaining.

Nonetheless, I am certain that the original poster's concerns about connecting three devices over TDIF in serial are unwarranted. Being that each device creates and transmits a new copied signal corrects for that. But thanks for keeping me on my toes.

 

[Charlie Burns]

Hi,

Can someone tell me where the main stereo analog outputs are on the DM3200?

Are they XLR or 1/4 jack? I can find the CR outs, digital outs, sends/returns, there are to unmarked XLRs above them but i get noise when i use them.

thanks,
Charlie.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Charlie Burns Welcome to the forum. What exactly are you trying to achieve?

https://i.postimg.cc/NFYkfLhp/DM-3200-Rear-Panel-View.jpg

 

[Charlie Burns]

Hi, thanks. All i want to do is to test the main outputs on the mixer.

thanks,
Charlie.

 

[mixerizer]

Yup the XLR outs are the main analog outs on the board, where the STEREO bus is presented. Assign any channel or buss to “STEREO” in the assign section and it will be audible on the stereo XLR outs.