DM-4800 Cascade Mode

[SCK Records]

well, you can read in my earlier posts that i am located in switzerland.
i do not know what kind of further information i have to provide; i tied
to describe the problem twice. maybe it's my bad english - i appologize
for this.

what happened so far is that i sent my complaints directly to the lead of the
tascam distributor in switzerland (gowild music). after a couple of days, i got
the first reaction since this case was opened (which i did in june or so).

i had several telephone calls/mails with them and they told me that they have
to do further investigation on this. but they confirmed that i have everything
set up correctly (midi/daw config, etc.).

 

[Muziekschuur]

This are my thoughts about this.

The DM4800 has 24 faders in remote control. And can bank up and down with the push of a button. In remote control with two DM4800's in cascade mode I'd rather have a split console. Before inline was available there were large consoles with a input section and a tape return section.

When in remote Its handy to have a desk in mixermode and a desk in remote. Since you have now access to all parameters for adjustments. Like overdub or adding to a available project.

48 tracks is usually such a busy thing it would be a Tracking session. And if it were a mixing thing I'd appreciate the fact I can track extra parts and have the spit desk mode..

 

[Will Miho]

Well I believe the cascade function only cascades the specific things mentioned in the documentation, busses, auxes etc. Which does not mention cascading midi functions at all. Have you tried connecting the USB from both consoles to your computer?

I have been using the Tascam Automation, which does not play with DAW automation they told me, so I never tried to do that. I had to choose one or the other. A timecode issue IIRC.

If you can get the Tascam automation working along with the DAW automation, that would be good info to pass along.

 

[RedBus]

It took a long time to set up two machines for intensive debugging, I had engineers on two continents trying to remember idiosyncrasies in the tools from over 6 years ago. But we have found and fixed the problem switching to the Remote Layer.

Send me an private message with your email so I can send you a beta version to check.

 

[SCK Records]

thanks redbus,

i have installed the new firmware on my consoles and it works fantastic.
now i can use my two dm4800s just as one big controller for my daw.

if anyone else needs help on this, or on setting up cascaded dm4800s,
i am happy to help.

if anyone is interested in how all this looks like: http://www.sck-records.com


cheers!

 

[29CountsNY]

Sorry to bring this old thread back but I have a quick question about cascading. Since they do not make the DM4800 anymore I was thinking about buying a second DM3200 to cascade with the first but I can't find any info anywhere about how the card slots would work. Right now I have the Firewire card and an analog card. I rarely use the firewire card because I have Pro Tools HD and I use the TDIF ports to get in and out of Pro Tools. But I also use Cubase, WaveLab, Reason, etc.. and sometimes it is just easier to use the Firewire card instead of the HD setup of I/O in the other programs. But I also would like to add my second Analog card but don't have enough room to get back there to switch card easily.

Question: If I was to cascade two DM3200's would I have access to the second mixers card slots?? So instead of 2 would I have 4 card slots available?
Thanks in advance!
Arne

 

[Muziekschuur]

Over busses as far as I have followed this subject. Wich seems like a logical way to work.

 

[29CountsNY]

So I couldn't route direct then? I tend to route the inputs directly to the TDIF outputs. I don't use the EQ or compression on the DM, the DM is pretty much a digital patchbay for me to route to headphones so there is no latency.
I was hoping it would just be adding more I/O.
I'll have to do a little more reading, thanks for the response.

 

[Muziekschuur]

This only means you track without making choices. I tend to believe this usually leads to waisting time. Please make informed decisions with the group you are working with. It has been told me over and over again by musicians and engineers that making informed decisions is very important. I was at the tracking of 64 musicians for a movie. This ended up on 12 tracks.

 

[29CountsNY]

Thanks for the input but I do not see how my comment above would lead you to believe that I am tracking without making choices.

 

[cmaffia]

Ok I have 2 dm3200's now upgraded to the firmware that fixes the remote layer switching bug (1.72b3) and every works fine except the remote layer (assuming that in the remote layer the DAW tracks should now span across both console's faders (1-32) before having to nudge or bank to the next tracks. First off... is what I just explained the expected functionality when cascading in the remote layer? If the answer is yes, then I'm missing something in the setup. What happens now is when I choose the remote layer on the master console the master syncs to the DAW (as it does as a single machine) but the slave does nothing (although its remote layer light is on).

Is there something I need to do to get both machines to work in Cubase?

Do I need to have the slave connected the computer via USB as well? (this doesn't seem logical as there would be 2 DM's competing for MTC MIDI 3 port as well as the other MIDI ports)

Do I need to add a machine controller to the slave and if so what parameters?

Do I need to add addition Mackie controllers in Cubase for the slave?

I assumed all cascading functionality would go through the cascade cables (which it does for everything else except for the remote layer). Maybe this isn't how it works however the post above from another user sounds like he has it working like I am expecting.

Some more info on both machines. Both machines have a 2SeeMy card, a FireWire card, an Analog Card and Meter Bridge installed.

Confused (which comes very easy)

 

[RedBus]

Both desks need to be connected via USB to the computer, identical setups in terms of machine control. Set up 2 additional controllers in the DAW.
2 sets of MIDI ports will show up, you'll only use the master's MTC 3, but you'll have a total of 4 Mackie controllers to use.
Cascade only syncs the clocks (sample and timecode), and sums the audio busses.

RedBus.

 

[cmaffia]

Thanks RedBus. So both machines can use MIDI ports 5 and 6 simultaneously or does the OS give the 2nd DM3200 different MIDI ports for fader control? I guess I should disable MIDI Port 3 on the Slave to avoid conflict? How does the remote layer work in a cascade scenario. Does it spread the first 32 DAW tracks across both consoles or is the remote layer mirrored on both ?

 

[RedBus]

The OS will show all MIDI ports for both units. on Windows that looks something like
USB Audio Device MIDI 5
USB Audio Device[2] MIDI 5
So you'll also have two MTC 3 ports, and just need to choose the Master's one in the DAW.
Having 4 MC controllers in the DAW is much like having 2 - you choose how they assign - but it would be normal to have then numbered normally, and the 2 DM-3200s behave like one big 32 channel controller.

 

[cmaffia]

The remote layer in cascade mode is still not working on the Slave.

- I copied my Master project template to the Slave to ensure the Remote Layer settings match as instructed.

- When I check the Windows 7 device manager (using Windows 7 64bit Home) it shows both DM3200 audio drivers loaded without conflicts (I see "DM3200 Audio" listed twice).

- Both Master and Slave have connection to TMC. I can toggle with the drop down to both DM's and read their respective CF cards.

- I added 2 more Mackie devices in Cubase but here is where it gets weird. In Cubase, when I go to assign the ports for Mackie Remotes 3 & 4 and use the drop down, it lists 2 instances of DM3200 in succession but the ports have the same names (does not have the (2) distinction as RedBus described they would.

I assume that the second instance is the Slave but regardless of which one I choose the Slave never makes a connection to Cubase. As I add Mackie controllers 3 & 4 there's activity on the Remote screen of the Master and therefore I suspect that all ports listed are actually pointing to the USB of the Master not the Slave....at least that's what I think is happening. In fact when I go back to the Mackie Settings for Devices 3 and 4 and go to their respective drop downs, it has the FIRST instance highlighted of MIDI 5 and 6 when I chose the 2nd instance (that's shown in the photo as well).

- I've tried using every other USB port on my system but no change.

- I've initialized the Slave to factory default settings and configured the Remote Layer to work with Cubase but no change.

- If I disconnect the USB cable from the Master and relaunch Cubase, the Slave's remote layer works perfect in single DM mode.

Any suggestions?

 

[RedBus]

I'm tempted to blame Cubase here, everything you've described sounds like the way it should be.

 

[cmaffia]

Thanks RedBus. Any clue where I would look in Cubase? Are you suggesting its a configuration or compatibility issue with Cubase?

What's confusing is why there's no distinction between the 2 DM Port names? Could this be an Win7/DM USB Driver issue? It seems that this type of information would be passed to Cubase not created.

When you cascaded in your labs to fix the Remote Layer Switching bug, what OS was used in testing? Part of my frustration is that I have experienced reliability issues with the DM3200 USB connection in Windows 7 and/or newer motherboards. I've been able to duplicate DM/Cubase/Windows 7 combination issues on several machines that I can't duplicate in XP. In fact just this past weekend I couldn't even update the board's firmware to 1.72b using TMC in Windows 7. I had to use an old XP laptop to do the update. TMC loads up in a blink of an eye on my XP machines while in Windows 7 it takes 15 seconds (and it does that with no other USB devices installed except for the mouse and keyboard). If you see in my signature I have many USB devices connected including a recently purchased Punchlight and no other device has sporadic connectivity issues except for the DM USB.
Not sure what else I can do. If I can't get this working then I guess I have a hot spare or I could buy another home and build another Bastudio

 

[Arjan P]

What I'm seeing in your photo is that the MIDIINs are consequetively numbered from 1-6. In my view this should possibly be MIDIIN1-3 from both DMs? Since each USB connection has identical communication over their own MIDIINs (like having several MIDI synths all presenting their own 16 MIDI channels). Like Redbus said above, 2x MIDI 5 device.

 

[cmaffia]

Actually I can have cubase exclude the extraneous midi ports so they don't list. Right now I only have one DM connected but you can see the list now cleaned up.



The only ports the DAW needs with a DM3200 is 3,5,6. (3 for MTC). What I expected was for cubase to list:

MIDIIN3
MIDIIN3(2)
MIDIIN5
MIDIIN5(2)
MIDIIN6
MIDIIN6(2)

Instead it is listing
MIDIIN3
MIDIIN3
ETC but choosing the 2nd instance or even the 1st doesn't make the connection to the Slave.

 

[cmaffia]

Just connected the 2 again. They are definitely trying to share the same port 5 & 6. If they are supposed to share they aren't. Unplug the master and the slave makes the connection to Mackie device 1 & 2 (MIDI port 5 & 6 in cubase. Unless RedBus has a cure, I'm out of ideas...long shot question. Anyone else cascading 2 DM3200's using Cubase 8.5?

Reward: Steak dinner for fixing my cascade issue.