Cool Trick for Syncing More than 8 tracks (without the midi port)

[Neon Horn]

With the new DP-24SD you don't have the midi sync option. I got around this by recording a trigger track that will be used to clock my Electribe 2 (on the sync input).
What I did was place an 808 rim shot on every 8th note and record this on input H (track 8). After recording the first 8 tracks (including the sync track) I can add an additional 8 tracks in sync with the original 8 by turning on Track 8 EFF2 to maximum and Master 2 to maximum, I then hook up a 1/4" TS to 1/8" TS from send 2 to to the sync input on my electribe 2. In the global settings on the electribe 2 I set the clock to external... this means it will look for an external midi clock first, if it doesn't receive one it'll look for a sync clock. I hit play on the electribe and it will remain dormant until it receives a clock pulse. Once I hit play & Record on the DP-24SD and it gets to where the music starts, the E2 will keep clocked perfectly to the Tascam.

Just a note, when you record the sync track, the 808 RS should be recorded as loud as possible without clipping. This will ensure a good clock pulse.

Enjoy
Mike

 

[Sam Trenholme]

Yep. Trigger tape sync is one way of keeping things in sync but, as you noticed, you have to have a really hot level to have the trigger sync work (I remember recording a 1/16 note trigger signal from my Boss DR-220 drum machine to my Fostex X-15II, and then, by making that trigger signal really loud, using it to sync the DR-220 so I could use it to send trigger signals to my ARP AXXE to sequence bass lines).

Another trick is to use a medium to high end 1980s drum machine or sequencer (e.g. R8, TR-626, but not the TR-707, which is buggy sending MIDI sync when it’s a tape sync slave) which can record a tape sync track; then using send 2 on the DP24/DP32 to send the sync signal back to the drum machine (pre-fader sends are useful for a lot of things), which can then slave any other devices which accept MIDI clock. This way, sequenced overdubs can be in sync with previously recorded tracks. This, in fact, is how I record sequenced music on my DP32SD. It’s a very 1980s approach to song production.

 

[Lasvideo]

Im at a loss how to implement this solution with my new DP-24SD and Beat Buddy. Detailed info on what device I need to generate the sync tone and a step by step description of this whole process would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bio-Rhythm]

Just a few years later

The sync tone the previous comments are referring to is MTC (Midi Time Code).
MIDI Time Code uses absolute time in its messages (the actual time on the clock from the beginning of a song in hours, minutes, seconds, frames, and subframes).
Midi sequencers and most drum machines produce a midi time code tone whenever they are in play mode. You can either program an entire song on a drum track or sequencer or just create a metronome track for however long you want your song to be. Then take a line from the MTC output from the drum machine/sequencer, playback the song and record the tone to a track on your portable studio. Now you can set your drum machine or sequencer to slave to that recorded "sync" track. Older cassette multitrack recorders like the portastudios series had a designated output for sending MTC so that it wasn't corrupted by Dolby tape noise reduction coding. Since MTC is coded in an audio tone you can route it through any audio output port back to your drum machine or sequencer's MTC input for slaving. You can also slave your DAW on your computers to this "striped" track on your portable recorder. The DAW on your computer can be set to follow your computers midi clock, the MTC from other devices or even SMPTE timecode which is used in film and television productions.

 

[Mark Richards]

@Bio-Rhythm, interesting. How does that compare/differ from Phil Tipping's Video Tutorial #13 in the "Tutorial and Informational Videos For DP-32/24/32SD/24SD" sticky thread? Would you say one method is more preferable/easier to implement than the other?

 

[Phil Tipping]

The sync tone the previous comments are referring to is MTC (Midi Time Code).

No, they are referring to MIDI Clock which is completely different.

MIDI Clocks are the simpler sync method and comprise single byte MIDI messages (F8) which are sent at regular intervals, 24 for every quarter note (they are tempo dependent).
By tracking these, the slave device can prevent its own clock from drifting throughout the song. Using home-made audio pulses from e.g. drum sounds, is effectively a form of this, but whichever you use, there is no absolute time information so you still need a method for the master to tell the slave when the song starts. There are other 'realtime' messages such as Start, Stop and Song Position Pointer which can help with this. These come under the umbrella MMC (MIDI machine control), which on some gear is a separate config setting to the timing clock.

MTC (MIDI Time Code) is different even though it sounds similar. It comprises a multi-byte message which contains the absolute time value, hours, mins, secs, frames (from the film industry). If the slave is able to handle this (and not all gear can), it can move its transport position ('chase') to the same point as the master and remain in sync.

 

[Bio-Rhythm]

Oh ok, I was wondered about them using trigger sound every bar. I used midi time code way, way back when I would program all my drums parts on an Alesis HR16. I was recording on a Tascam portastudio 244 which was a 6 x 4 unit. Yes the drums had to be triggered from the start of the song but if I remember correctly I could start from anywhere in the song and just have a drum loop to work with and it would play in time from the beginning of a bar. I did this back in 1989 while recording backing tracks for my solo act and recorded about a hundred songs this way. Once I had my bass, guitar & keys recorded on tracks 2, 3 & 4 I was able to slave the drum machine to the MTC and mix the entire song with the drum machine playing back all my drum parts live to master (running through channels 5 & 6 on the portastudio).
So at the same time I was doing this I was recording albums with a couple bands in a recording studio on a Tascam MSR-16. I did the same thing by striping track #1 with MTC and used that to trigger drum parts and, I think synthesizer as well, live to master. I always planned to eventually transfer those reel to reel tapes to DAW at home but only having a 2 track interface in the years following I figured I'd slave the DAW to the MTC and transfer the songs 2 tracks at a time. I'm not sure how well that would have worked out. I'm sure there would have been some challenges. I still plan to do it if I can track down an MSR16...luckily now I have a Tascam 16 track interface so it'll be much easier and quicker. Hopefully I'll still be able to sync the MTC to my HR16. There's something to be said for hanging on to gear for 30 years
Btw: what landed me in this thread today was I just picked up a Tascam DP-008EX yesterday and I was wondering how I would do something similar with it. I haven't even downloaded a manual yet so I'm not at all familiar with the machine but I'm guessing there will be easier and better ways to sync drum machines and/or synths to it. It's really just intended as a pocket writing tool but it'll be interesting to see what it's capable of.

 

[Phil Tipping]

Haha yes those were the days. I think we had a lot more patience then
Not wishing to be pedantic, but those systems were not MTC or SMPTE. It's a common confusion, but the terminology is important when choosing gear to sync together.
The HR16 only supports the simpler MIDI timing clock messages, along with start/stop and song-position, and it's the latter which allowed you to start at any point in the song, not MTC.

If in any doubt, the manuals for a lot of gear have a MIDI Specification or MIDI Implementation section at the back... the good stuff is invariably at the back, like block diagrams
This is usually a table in a standard layout showing the types of MIDI messages which are transmitted and received.

Re. the DP-008EX, I don't think these have an aux/send output, which makes it easier to route the sync tones out of the machine separate to the main output. But you may be able to get away with using the main outputs for sync, and either forego monitoring altogether, or monitor from some other point.
Sounds like fun either way!