DP-24 - Was Working Fine, Suddenly no Sound

[Adrian Pollock]

Hello,

I hope you can help.
I recently bought a DP24 Midi version which has been working great, I have been enjoying the ease of using it, sounds great.

I was using it Saturday night past, all good, switched off after my session, put cover over it and left it for next use.

Turned it on last night (Wednesday) and got no audio via speakers or headphones (although all track and 2 x stereo meters for song playback moved up and down as normal).

I will stress that nothing has changed between Saturday night and last night - nobody goes into my "studio" (box room).

I did usual things - tested audio out cables (connected to monitor out jacks on DP), they are fine, powered speakers and headphones are testing fine with other gear. I did an initialise via preferences on DP, reinstalled firmware (1.22v) and even downgraded to see if that made any difference which it didn't.

I am getting no audio in, nothing on meters, turn input trims up full - no clipping light activity, nothing.

Questions:

1. Has this happened to anyone else? I have seen threads re no sound but they were either new owner issues, or partial sound was heard etc - not a complete zero on both input and output.

2. If this is hardware failure could both input and output audio fail at the same time, how likely is that?

3. All was left working, nothing had changed after using the machine for a month since buying (machine wasn't left on for a month obviously). Other than the possibility of a power surge (I leave the machine plugged in and turned off by the button at the back of the screen housing) what else could I consider?

4. I likely do not have an SD card on the approved list but this was working for last 5 weeks fine, I have tunes on it - I tried 2 other cards, no difference. Should I expect to get any audio in or out with no SD card inserted?

5. There is a small red dot in upper left of screen which coincides with where the song progress bar starts from - never noticed that before but then I wasn't really looking before as things just worked fine. Do all screens show that red dot?

This is my first Tascam having used Roland VS recorders over the years. I would not consider myself a 'newbie' and as I say above ....this unit has been working fine. All buttons still wotk fine, moving stereo fader moves the two L&R stereo meters to the far right on the screen. Monitor knob is turned up halfway as before when all worked.

It looks to me like the enture audio system is either muted or software controlling it has become corrupted (no channels are muted or solo'd on DP).

I did however reinstall firmware as noted above just to rule out firmware corruption. Are there any other files that I should be checking on the SD card for corruption?

I will order an 'approved' SD card but if I should expect audio in via say guitar input and track assigned / REC on that track selected for audio monitoring purposes then can we not rule out SD card errors?

Any help would be appreciated.

Strange one, perplexed....

Thank you.

 

[shredd]

Boy howdy...that's quite an enigma. A lot of strange symptoms.
You're probably doing the right things (update f/ware, chk cables, etc). Good process. And the importance of a quality SD card can't be overstated (don't forget that when you format your SD card, the unit places a "*.sys" file on it, carrying all your units' settings...if that got fouled up, you'd SURELY have problems!).

So, I think (qualified by my title as card-carrying Village Idiot) it's possible that a setting was inadvertently/accidentally changed that produced the sudden (apparent) malfunction.
I say so, because I've had my O/G DP-32 change some random internal setting all on its' own, with no explanation why; probably some stewpyd internal software glitch. Most recent was the [PowerSave] setting in the Preferences panel - I have mine set to [OFF], but once in a while it'd put itself to sleep, and when I restarted and checked, the setting was set to [30MIN] or such...it's set it back, and it'd stay that way for weeks/months, then happen again. Very odd.

SO: I was considering the possibility that yours somehow changed where it's sourcing its' output - for example, "wut if" the [Monitor Select] suddenly was monitoring something BESIDES your stereo master?
Might be something like that...just a guess. We might need some of the actually-smart guyz here to chime in.

Good luck.

 

[Adrian Pollock]

Shredd, many thanks for coming back. I have read before about this sys file getting corrupted.

Do you, anyone else know, if we can / should be able to get sound coming in and out without a SD card in place? I.e. I just want to play my guitar through the DP, stick an effect on and send the sound back out to my powered speakers via monitor out jacks? I am looking to rule out the SDcard if possible - obviously if I am wanting to record something I know I need a card. Can I just play music / guitar through this without a SD card?

I do the odd bit of repairing of synths, multitrack recorders and I am happy to open it up, signal trace etc but don't want to do so if I am missing something.

Thanks again shredd / folks in advance for your help.

 

[Phil Tipping]

I've just tried running mine with no card inserted and all controls are locked out. I was going to suggest assigning an input to the stereo bus to bypass the track path completely, but the assign button won't work without a card, so I don't think you can get audio through it without a card inserted.
Seems like you've tried pretty much everything, including firmware update, factory initialise, different sd-cards, so that rules out any rogue settings.
You say the input section is also not working, so to me it's looking like an internal issue... it may just be a cable which needs re-seating, but haven't checked the service manual to see if one cable would explain all your symptoms.
If you're ok/competent at delving into the machine, the schematics etc. are available online if you search for them. Keep us posted.
Btw - the red dot appears on mine as well.
Update: Just an afterthought - if you did a firmware update, the machine must have been able to read your sd-card, so I think you can rule that out. Yes if it's not compatible, it may not be good enough for multi-track recording & playback, but if it can read the firmware file, it can read the .sys file... which then begs the question: did you try re-formatting the card in order to re-create the sys file?
Update2: Just noticed you've already been 'inside'... maybe something wasn't re-connected firmly enough? What anti-static precautions did you use?

...Bought my DP-24 midi version last week on Ebay. Pan pot didn't work. I opened her up which is a job, quite tricky. A trace by the pan pot pcb wasn't fully connected so a dab of solder and job done

 

[Adrian Pollock]

Phil,

Many thanks for taking the time to come back to me. I have the schematic (21 pages) and for those of you who may have it if you go to page 19, left hand side and half way up there is a "line" of circuity called "Audio Mute" which runs to monitor and line out jacks. I think this is separate to the channel mute buttons - perhaps someone who knows the innards might be able to confirm but I will likely start there if there is nothing immediately obvious when I look.

Phil, from what you are saying there is no audio in nor out without the SD card in place? Have I got that right? Obviously if my machine was working I could confirm this for myself.

A cable could have come loose and all hopefully shall be revealed when it "goes under the knife". I will take pics but note that I can only share links to where they are stored as opposed to being able to upload them directly to the forums.

I will revert and again thank you all for your contributions and to what is a great forum.

Thank you.

 

[shredd]

I’d go w/ @Phil Tipping ’s advice…in relative terms, on the topic of DP’s, he’s a rocket surgeon and I have to remember which way the pointy end of the guitar goes every time I sit down to play.

Plenny good tips from him, that might sort things out for you.
He’s right: the DP will not ‘boot’ without a functioning/properly-formatted SD card in place.

Maybe the unit took a beating during shipment, and something (like an internal connector) shook loose?!?

I’d also recommend - as a non-tech’s troubleshooting method - to wander through your settings & routings, to make sure there isn’t something simple causing the problem. I’ve made some routing mistakes that are SO simple/stewpyd that if I told them, people would think I’m not smart enough to pull my pants down to p!!!

 

[Adrian Pollock]

All,

(Particularly Shredd and Phil),

An update.

Took the back off it looking for signs of burning, anything catastrophic - nothing.

Because all audio was dead it got me thinking about perhaps it didn't have enough power to drive the audio circuitry which I would expect would be the biggest consumer of power.

Checked the (non-original which says 12v and 2amps) with a multimeter - 9.4v, suspiciously low.

Got out the variable bench supply and pumped 12v into it - sound is back, all good .

I do not know how but the psu that came with it went bad since last Saturday - I suppose if it was cheap they can go bad at any time.

I want to order a new supply and ideally the Tascam original as long as they aren't wanting a kidney for it (a huge amount of money - you can tell I am well chuffed now!).

Can anyone first of all confirm if it is 2amp or 5amp - the user manual just says 12v on the specifications page towards the back of the manual. What does it say on the original psu?

Secondly, if you can recommend a supplier / website to purchas a psu from, ideally in the UK. I put in the Tascam psu reference on the web and up come loads but it always ends up saying "compatible" supply. I would prefer the original as this unit is a keeper.

Thank you again for your ongoing assistance.

Ps: Whilst I am in there I will sort out the play button as you need to press hard for the machine to play - I have some replacement tact switches.

A good, in the end, learning experience although you can end up thinking the worst I.e. totally kaput.

Kind regards.

 

[shredd]

VERY good call to chk PSU. These things can DEFinitely go bad, sometimes between one use & the next…you’d HOPE an OEM Tascam PSU was be sturdier than some garbage generic one…but no guarantees, I guess.

SO: the OEM PSU for my O/G DP-32 says output is 12v, 2.5A, center-positive. You’re always better off having extra capacity, than buying one below rated needs.
Also - bear in mind that I’m in the US….doesn’t the UK have some sort of alien-invented electrical system built by the Druids?!?

I don’t imagine I could recommend a UK source for a new OEM or generic PSU, beyond what either of us could google. I suspect this is another area where @Phil Tipping ’s expertise will save the day??

 

[Adrian Pollock]

Shredd,

Thank you for coming back, yes, definitely invented by druids at Stonehenge

As long as I know it is 12v, 2 5amps then I can work from that.

Replaced all the track transport buttons, all back together and most importantly....it is working

I will have a look online for a psu and get this set back up in the box room, I mean studio

Best wishes all, hopefully no more surgery needed for this DP!

 

[Mark Richards]

...I've had my O/G DP-32 change some random internal setting all on its' own, with no explanation why; probably some stewpyd internal software glitch. Most recent was the [PowerSave] setting in the Preferences panel - I have mine set to [OFF], but once in a while it'd put itself to sleep, and when I restarted and checked, the setting was set to [30MIN] or such...it's set it back, and it'd stay that way for weeks/months, then happen again. Very odd.

Shredd, just a thought:

Do you use default templates like the ones recommended by Phil? If so, is it possible your template's Preferences are all set to their factory defaults? In the case of the Auto Power Save, the system default is 30 minutes after the last user operation or chosen function.

Also, the Auto Power Save Function is disabled under the following conditions: During recording or playback; when the metronome is in use; when the record function is ON; or when a signal is output from the STEREO OUT circuit. Does your DP-32 go to sleep during any of these operations?

 

[Mark Richards]

As long as I know it is 12v, 2 5amps then I can work from that...I will have a look online for a psu

From the DP-24 OM:
CAUTION
Never use any AC adaptor or power cord other than the supplied TASCAM PS-1225L AC adaptor and power cord. Doing so could cause malfunction...

I'm inclined to take TASCAM at their word. In 10 years of original ownership, I've had Zero problems with my DP-24.

 

[shredd]

Shredd, just a thought:
Do you use default templates like the ones recommended by Phil?
[SNIP]
Does your DP-32 go to sleep during any of these operations?

In short: no, it only 'goes to sleep’ when left idle, & “times out” at 30 min…and only when the [Preferences] panel has mysteriously set itself to [30Min]!

And yes - I do use @Phil Tipping ’s “template” procedure…when I acquired my O/G SP-32, I went through all his vids thoroughly to acclimate myself to it’s use. Countless invaluable tips!

Anyway: explored/experimented with the AutoSave setting deeply, and found it isn’t set in any individual songs’ settings/setup; it appears to be part of the machine’s “global” Preference Panel settings, and applies to any active project…

 

[Phil Tipping]

Glad you found the culprit Adrian. That's very useful information as it could explain a few strange faults from users which were never resolved; certainly one to add to the list of standard checks, although it does mean access to a multi-meter.
Shredd - I thought your intermittent settings issue was caused by a dying internal battery? Or was this someone else?
Might be prudent for Adrian to replace the battery while he's got it apart.

 

[shredd]

Shredd - I thought your intermittent settings issue was caused by a dying internal battery? Or was this someone else?

Hi @Phil Tipping !
Nup...that was me. And it's still unproven/unresolved...not gonna take my DP apart unless it's critical to do so. I don't have the skillz or the guts that @Adrian Pollock does!
And since that weird [PowerSave] setting is literally the ONLY thing doing that...I don't consider it critical. Everything else seems to function as expected.

And I agree - IF I were inside the DP unit like Adrian's been - and the backup battery is accessible - I'd replace it fer SHER!!!