VST System Link and DM4800

[Juzz]

Hi Folks,

Has anybody successfully setup Steinberg's system link with thier DM4800/3200 machine? I noticed in the Cubase system link settings it allows any one of the 32 channels to choose from. Any pointers as to the configuration of the DM mixer to allow this to work?

Thanks in advance.

 

[J L Bowie]

I’ve been using Nuendo and Cubase System Linked via my DM 4800 for years now and it works perfectly. It’s relatively easy to setup, too.

First thing to note is that System Link only works with Nuendo and/or Cubase. The version doesn’t matter as long as it is one that has the capability.


Second important thing is that the two systems have to be connected either by ADAT or SPDIF (Or whatever digital interconnect your systems support, including FW).


Thirdly, although System Link allows you to create multiple MIDI channels via SPDIF and/or ADAT, the number of audio channels you can transfer depends entirely on the number of physical audio ports available between the two machines. For example, my setup:


DM4800 with 32 channels via FW card to Nuendo


Cubase on second system linked by 24 channels of ADAT via 2x ADAT expansion cards and native DM4800 ADAT to RME 9652 ADAT. This allows 24 channels of audio streaming between the two systems. Also note that Syslink does not require that an ADAT or SPDIF channel be dedicated to its data. The option is available just in case high volumes of MIDI data require it, but I haven’t hit the ceiling yet, myself.


Now, I had to route a Syslink signal from Nuendo to Cubase and back again and I did it thus:


Used Channel 32 from the FW output (Slot 1 on my board) and routed it within the DM mixer to ADAT 1 Out (The Native ADAT port, not the expansion cards).

So, in the System Link dialogue in Nuendo I used channel 32 for the Output, which is routed internally to ADAT 1. On system 2, consequently, in the Syslink dialogue within Cubase, ADAT 1 is the Input.

You will then route the Syslink output from system 2 back to the Syslink Input on system 1, put both systems online and, voila, you have transport control from either system.


So, to be clear, you only need one I/O channel from either system to make this connection, and it can be either SPDIF or ADAT. You can create MIDI channels within the link to your liking to control instruments, and/or use the second system as a video slave. I do both.


Now, on your DM:


Get into the routing menu, and then into the OUTPUT tab.

Under SOURCE SELECT choose BUSS DIRECT

Select ADAT under TERMINAL SELECT

Select whichever ADAT port number you want to use (I chose 8), then use the scroll wheel to select the channel (1 – 32) that you wish to use, hit enter to make it resident.


Next, get into the OUTPUT SLOT tab.

Set your source selection to ADAT and then choose the channel grouping you want under TERMINAL SELECT (I chose 25 – 32)

Under OUTPUT SELECT you will then choose from 1 – 8, representing Output Slot channels 25 – 32 (I chose 32), use the scroll wheel to choose the ADAT channel you chose previously on the OUTPUT tab (I chose 8 as noted above), hit enter to make it resident, and you are good to go. Once both systems are online you will have two way communication between the programs.


Routing on the DM can be a little perplexing, so if you run into any issues send me a PM and I’ll do what I can to get you through.

Jack

 

[Juzz]

Hi Jack,

Wow! Thanks for all the detail and well written reply. It's really appreciated. Can't wait to try it out.
Cheers, Jusstin

 

[Steve Fogal]

Regarding what was said about only using ADAT, or s/pdif...
From what I've read, VST System Link (VSL) is supposed to be able to work with any digital audio type, although the different types can't be combined together. I've only used coaxial s/pdif myself with VSL, running audio, VSL data... and have test ran midi through the same cable with great results (I record all midi tracks directly into a dedicated VSTi PC these days).

Just a side note on my own discovery & experience with using VST System Link...
VSL doesn't absolutely have to be in what Steinberg calls a 'ring network'. In the scenario of 3 or more computers in a VSL network, one computer can send it's VSL data from a digital output, into a distribution amp having the same type of digital connections. From here, the VSL signal can be sent out of all of the amplifiers outputs simultaneously to any number of computers as you have on your distribution amp has (a star network). The advantage with a distribution amp, is that when you have multiple computers, this will eliminate the accumulative latency issue that each computer adds in a typical 'ring' network.
If the distribution amp is in the form of a matrix switcher, you have many switching options that can really expand your capabilities. Any one of several computers can be chosen as your master at any given time, and any other computers can be chosen as your acting slaves at any given time, all by the pressing of a few buttons, without physically rerouting anything.
While the traditional 'ring' network may have some advantage with multiple users, in that any one user can press play/stop etc and make all others follow, in a one man set-up I think the 'ring' network advantages start to dwindle compared to using a matrix switcher (star network).
With a 'ring' network, say with 3 or more computers, all connecting computers in the VSL network MUST be turned on and synced up/on-line, otherwise the signals & VSL data won't be passed on, from say computer 1 to computer 3... if computer 2 is not turned on.
With a matrix switcher of say having 8 ins/8outs, and even if you had 8 computers, you can have as little as only 2 computers turned on, out of 8 in your network....anywhere in the computer chain of computers 1 through 8, and you can make them communicate via VSL.

Of course, those with only 2 computers in your VSL network, the above doesn't really apply, or offer much. Also, I've read that with VSL it's been recommended using the same interfaces on each computer.. however I can use my 2 Tascams, FW-1082 or FW-1884 in my VSL network along side my Aardvark Q10's. And very oddly enough, recently I read somewhere that Steinberg had recommended using the 'same version series' (as in like using Cubase 8 pro, with Cubase Artist 8 or Cubase Elements 8 etc) but I know this to be false, as Cubase 8 Pro works with any Cubase version, as far back as Cubase VST 5/32. VST 5/32 was the 1st version to have VSL, but can only work in a slave role with it's last update. Any version after that, can work as a master or slave.

 

[J L Bowie]

Although I did outline my own VST System Link setup in my original post that utilizes a hybrid Firewire/ADAT digital interconnect, I should have been clearer in establishing that any of the available digital connections would work. (I have amended my original post accordingly)
It is also true that you don't have to have the same version of Cubase or Nuendo to make it happen.
As for the matrix approach, why not, if it suits your setup and modus operandi.

 

[Steve Fogal]

Hi JL, I had just wanted to chime in earlier to add some clarification in case others came upon this thread for future references. I actually thought you may have been likely speaking about a certain set of particulars. I see that you've added any digital audio can run with VSL.

Honestly, I was also looking for a good excuse to chime in on a System Link discussion, in case others in the future are interested and fell upon this thread as I did... even though I myself don't use the Tascam's mentioned in this original post. Maybe some day.


Regarding my own particulars, with use of a matrix switcher with VST System Link (if anyone's interested), again this is more for using multiple computers, so don't bother if planning on using just two computers.
When I began using three PC's with VSL, I didn't always need all three PC's powered on. I had realized that with the typical 'ring' network connection (in and out of each PC in the network, and back again to the 1st) if I had say, computer 2 turned off, it broke the VSL chain, and I couldn't System Link computers 1 & 3 without physically re-routing my coaxial s/pdif cables. I then sought out a solution of switching distribution so that I could choose which PC's I wanted to use. Plus with properly amplified distribution, I figured I could send VSL data out of one PC, and distribute that signal simultaneously to, in theory, an unlimited number of PC's, for which will add no more latency with many computers, than with just two computers. This worked just as I had thought.

When looking for a monitor mixer, to monitor all computers in a VSL network, enabling me to hear all their audio simultaneously from a single point. I decided on buying a used Tascam FW-1082 and then a FW-1884 mixer/controller/interface, using the Tascam in a stand-alone mode only at 1st.
I'm now using (a choice between) my Tascam FW-1082 & my Tascam FW-1884 with a fifth PC as an actual audio interfaces. With this many PC's in a VSL network, you'll likely find specific tasks for each computer, and you may want to use just one, two, or more PC's at any given time.

 

[J L Bowie]

Hey Steve, VST System Link is a very handy tool, for everything from simply setting up a video slave, to syncing VST Instruments in order to take a load off your main system. I'm currently down to two systems from three at my peak (Before 64 bit made our lives better). Good info on the matrix setup.

 

[Steve Fogal]

Right JL, now that I've gone 64 bit OS & Cubase on my main DAW, I may have less use for 5 computers lol, but will continue running my 32 bit PC's via VSL as needed to run all my 32 bit VSTi's etc.

 

[cmaffia]

Happy to see some of the active Steinberg Forum/DM series users on here. Great information guys. Much appreciated!

 

[Steve Fogal]

I don't have a Tascam DM, though I do have interest

But as far as VST System Link go's when using multiple computers, the biggest revelation I've discovered was using a digital distribution amp to split up the Master system's VSL signal, running into all slaves simultaneously, eliminating the Steinberg recommended 'ring' network, and using a star network.
Ever since I started doing this, System Link has been more stable... maybe because when returning VSL data back to a VSL transmitting PC, as a ring network does, it may cause some kind of interference glitch, possibly having something to do with the difference in latency among system?
Previously, in my original ring network, I would occasionally lose sync. And in either case of ring vs star networks, I was using the same PC's & audio interfaces.
My next System Link reconfiguration will include my master BNC word clock, removing the digital audio clock duties from System Link, and my audio devices. Essentially, all that VSL will have to do is send transport commands and digital audio.