TDIF cable - the old pain back again

[snafu]

Hi everyone,

my Motu 2408 unit has moved away - it's just 60 cm /23.6 inches from it's former place, but I had to change my whole cable management: so the new cable-length needed is about 4 meters / 13 feet. The old cable has no name on it, no labeling no nothing. So...

I was looking at Thomann, since here in germany this is my no. 1 place to look after stuff. I came up with this here. The product description says

• digitales Verbindungskabel für Tascam TDIF -Norm
• professionelle Ausführung Metall Sub-D 25pol male -Sub-D 25-pol male
• nicht für Tascam AES-EBU- Normverbindung geeignet

translated:
* digital connection cable for Tascam TDIF norm
* professional metal sub-d 25 pin male to sub-d 25 pin male
* not suitable f0r Tascam AES-EBU-norm connections

Then there is this one. Here the description says:

• Sub-D25pol male/Sub-D25pol male
• Steckverbinder Rean made by Neutrik
• kompatibel zur analogen Norm von Digidesign, RME, Tascam und Yamaha

translated:

• sub-d25 pin male/sub-d25 pin male
• Rean connectors made by Neutrik
• compatible to the analog norm of Digidesign, RME, Tascam and Yamaha

And finally that. Here it says:

The Hosa DBK303 is a 3' (0.9 m) male DB-25 to male DB-25 TDIF dubbing cable for use with Tascam multitrack recorders.

Is it that hard to find a TDIF cable for my DM3200? Seriously - which one to take?

Thanks, guys,
best regards
snafu

 

[Peter Batah]

@snafu I use three x 3' Hosa TDIF cables. with my DM-3200

 

[snafu]

Unfortunately I couldn't find them on Thomann They have some Hosas, but not sub-d 25 pin on sub-d 25 pin.

Is there any way to tell, whether a TDIF cable is suitable? I mean the Cordial says
"not suitable f0r Tascam AES-EBU-norm connections" --> is this what I need / don't need when connecting to my Motu unit? How come it has TDIF in it's name, when it doesn't fullfill a TAscam norm? Are there more than one?

Any more suggestions for cables?

 

[Arjan P]

@snafu Why don't you just order the two from Thomann? After checking you can send one back, right?

 

[snafu]

@Arjan P: Of course that's true ;-)
I'd just like to have some insight. E.g: TDIF has Tascam in it's name, so one would suggest it's the right thing. Then there's digital and analog cable (s. examples 1 & 2). Where can I subscribe to study the higher secrets of TDIF cables? :-D

 

[Rockum]

THIS ONE SHOULD WORK:

• digitales Verbindungskabel für Tascam TDIF -Norm
• professionelle Ausführung Metall Sub-D 25pol male -Sub-D 25-pol male
• nicht für Tascam AES-EBU- Normverbindung geeignet

THIS ONE WILL NOT WORK!

• Sub-D25pol male/Sub-D25pol male
• Steckverbinder Rean made by Neutrik
• kompatibel zur analogen Norm von Digidesign, RME, Tascam und Yamaha

TDIF is a digital connection. The second is an ad for analog Dsub25 cables used by many manufacturers (including Tascam). It is essentially an 8 channel audio snake with D sub connectors. It is not digital and it WILL NOT work.

 

[snafu]

Quick update: I was contacting Thomann, and indeed there seems to be some confusion. Analog norm and digital are - of course - two different subjects. But it get's easyly confused. And - you always learn new stuff - there are dedicated cables (TDIF) that act like adaptors to Tascam to Yamaha (Cordial labeled them DDTY). Then again there are TDIF cables that go by this name but don't follow the pin scheme of Tascam machines. In this case, the term TDIF is a bit misleading IMHO. And then there's the cable I'd like to get in this case, which is following TDIF-1 standard AND has a pin setting applicable for Tascam, MOTU, RME (?), and another system I forgot at the moment.

Thomann recommended the Cordial cdf 5ddt. Well, let's see if I found out of TDIF jungle - you guys'll be the first to know, as soon as I can tell.

best regards
snafu

 

[snafu]

@Rockum: seems we missed each other for a few seconds Thanks for your post. It's what I wanted to say in a more clear way.

 

[Rockum]

With two of these and a roll of cat-5, you can make your own the exact length you want.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/D-SUB-DB25...=item48bd33a6a7:g:z2IAAOSw7UJbFJfx:rk:31:pf:0

There are lots of sellers of these on ebay.

There are 8 wires a cat-cable and you need 24 for bidirectional communication and 12 if you are only sending or receiving. In other words, you will have to strand 3 of the cat-5 cables the length of your run. So for a 15 foot run, you need 45 feet of cat-5 (or cat-6). You'ld only need 30 feet for one way data transfer.

 

[Rockum]

If you go that route, let me know and I'll send you instructions.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Rockum Wish I would have known that earlier. Actually, may still need to construct 3 x TDIF. My 3' Hosa cables are really tight. I should have gone with at least 6' lengths from the start. But, they can get a little pricey. Great post. Thanks for the info. Peter

Followed the link that you provided and just saw this:

Does not ship to Canada

And why am I not surprised !!!

On the other hand, one of these might work:

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_fro...rminals+AdapterSolderlessConnectorS!&_sacat=0

 

[Rockum]

I picked a random example. As long as you have two Dsub25 male ends and terminals, I think you'll be fine even with a slightly different form factor.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Rockum I'd like those instructions if it's no too much trouble. I'd appreciate it very much. Thank you sir!

 

[snafu]

@@Rockum I'd like those instructions if it's no too much trouble. I'd appreciate it very much. Thank you sir!

May I ask to join? I'd be very interested in this! Thank you!

 

[Rockum]

Proceed at your own risk. It worked for me with some trial and error. I had to do a little experimentation some wires to fix a grounding issue, but I eventually got clean signals back and forth.

I think four cat-6 cables will make it easier than using three as I originally stated. Whatever the length, color-coat the 4 cables with four distinct colors so you will not confuse them. I used highlighters. Your colors don't need to match mine, but it might make it easier to keep track of what you are doing. Cat5 and 6 have four pairs of intertwined wires inside for a total of 8: Orange / Orange-white, Blue / Blue-white, Green / Green-white, and Brown / Brown-white.

You won't be connecting all the Brown / Brown-whites. The nice thing about using the terminals is if you have a problem, you can just unscrew and screw them back. It also allows you to make sure if you have the grounding issues I did that you can experiment. I also recommend using zip-ties to hold your cat-6 cables runs together and for harnessing your work so that it does not produce too much strain on the connections.

If you are trying to connect separate devices for TDIF in and out of your Tascam DM, you can use this setup:




I use mine with two MOTU 2408 units so that I can convert the TDIF in and out signals to ADAT.


In fact the 2408's will convert 3 banks of 8 channels allowing the two units to convert all of your TDIF traffic to ADAT (24 channels). But I will warn you in advance doing three sets of these was time consuming. That's 150 wires to try to strip, connect, and harness; and sometimes one wire breaks when you are working on the others...


Anyway, good luck. I also posted these graphics in the attached PDF so you could see them highres. I did the best I could to remember what worked. If you have any questions, let me know.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Rockum Thanks so much for the work that it must have taken to put this information together. Much appreciated. Peter

 

[Rockum]

No problem, Peter. You're sure welcome.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Rockum When you say: "color-coat the 4 cables with four distinct colors" I know that cat 5/6 cabling is available in different color sleeves. I suppose that could work as well.

 

[Rockum]

Sure. You just want to make sure that you know which of the four cables is which. I said I used highlighter, but come to thing of it I used some fingernail polish from the dollar store. It was for little girls so the colors were very bright. When I cut the cables I just put a dab on each end.

 

[Peter Batah]

@Rockum Nail polish huh. Hmmm Dollar store! Just saying! Just teasing! Silly question: If I am going out 3 x TDIF from the DM to my external DAW I assume that I should I be looking at diagram #1, correct