Routing Madness - how to

[snafu]

Cheers everyone,

after having my DM3200 now for 9 years, I am still amazed about the routing possibilities it has! An awesome piece of hardware of which I hope will stay with me for many more years to come - though I deeply regret it's discontinued

Anyway: I'm still working on my own home studio, and these days I want to dedicate myself to patchbay/routing. So here is my question:

1. the Dm3200 has 16 input/return (the 16 "Insert"-Jacks on the backside) - though I already have the IF-AN/DM: does it mean I have 16 analog outputs (since tip is indicated "send") ?

2. I am planning to buy some API 500 lunchbox - in theory, this is where the above mentioned "inserts" should come into play? So, let's say my signal leaves the DM through the send, is processed via the API and then returns into the DM through the return. Is it a mixing insert? Or is it 100% dry out / 100% wet back? For the prior: is there a dry/wet adjustment for each channel?

Thanks for any input - kind regards,
snafu

 

[Rockum]

> Does that mean I have 16 analog outputs?

I don't think so. The signal in from a mic or line is interrupted and flows directly to the tip. It can then be processed by an external device which will in turn send the processed signal by to the mic/line input. Only then is it truly input into the DM.

100% dry out / 100% wet back

 

[snafu]

Hey Rockum,

I see. But what if I route any signal already in the DM to an insert? For example:
I have my PC-Audio out on CH 15. In the DM routing Dialog it shows therefore "Slot1-1" - so the audio send to the FW card is on channel 15 (my master bus for PC volume so to speak). But what if make use of the insert of channel 15? Unfortunately I don't have the equipment right now for testing - maybe someone has an idea? Anyway, if the inserts take over on signals comming in from mic or line only - then I can see there's no chance for that. Any idea on audio routed to that channel?

[...]can then be processed by an external device which will in turn send the processed signal by to the mic/line input.

Just to be sure: send back into mic/line input? But that's where the signal would come from - from the way I see it, one needs stereo 1/4 jacks, so tip would be send and sleeve would be return (one jack acting as double purpose jack). But maybe I misunderstood something?

 

[Arjan P]

> Does it mean I have 16 analog outputs (since tip is indicated "send")?

These are not really outputs, though if you stick the insert cable not fully in (tip touches the contact but doesn't break it) you could use them to send Inputs 1-16 also to another device after the gain control. If you push through (as the intended use would be), Rockum's description is correct.

For the API used between send/return: there is NO wet/dry control on the DM, so you decide on the external device the amount of wet signal.

> But what if I route any signal already in the DM to an insert?

This is not possible. The channel inserts are pure hardware/analog. You must be confusing them with the soft inserts in the mixer which is quite a different subject.

> The way I see it, one needs stereo 1/4 jacks, so tip would be send and sleeve would be return

No, from the stereo insert cable, sleeve is Ground, ring is Return and tip is Send. See the diagram below:

 

[Rockum]

It took me a while to understand the purpose of the soft inserts, but after reading about them last week I understood the point. I plan to do a detailed video about routing. I will include a clear description of how and why to use. Hopefully I can get it done this week.

 

[Rockum]

I had some unexpected free time so I was able to get it done tonight. Sorry for the low quality audio of my phone.

The function, uses, and differences between the hardware inserts and the "soft inserts" found in the "INSERT" tab of the routing screen.

 

[Arjan P]

Good video, Rockum! One thing I'd like to add is that the hardware inserts are, as you say, permanent - but when used with an old fashioned hardware patchbay they are flexible again! This is the way I use them, and I can just patch any hardware compressor to any mic input on the DM that way. Also, the patchbay is half-normalled so I can take any mic input signal and tap it off to feed any other device I'd like to (like plugging the insert cable not fully through).

 

[cmaffia]

When I first got the DM and before I purchased the analog expansion card, I purchased insert cables and used the RTN cables to hook up external preamps as it bypasses the DM preamps and goes straight to the A/D converter. I used the SEND cables to route the input signal elsewhere. For example, sometimes I would send the signal to an analog mixer (to EQ) and brought it back into another input channel on the DM. I would also send it to an external effects processor and bring it back into the DM to blend with the dry signal and print to DAW. There are so many ways to do the same thing on these consoles.

 

[snafu]

Hey Rockum - cool video, nice job, sir I think what Arjan P (tag patchbay) and cmaffia described comes closest to what I was thinking about. Indeed I want to route my inserts to the patchbay inputs so I can patch everything to anything else - so to speak. Here's where a new question comes up: cmaffia , you said 'insert cables'. According to the manual all you need is a cable with a balanced 1/4" jack (male) - tip providing the send signal, and ring providing the return signal (Thanks for pointing out my mistake here, Arjan). So, if I get this right, this means I would have to get such a cable and connect the tip strand to the patchbay input, and the ring strand to the patchbay output (with patchbay I/O I mean one channel out of 96 - got myself a Neutrik nppa-tt-idc). Sorry for the crappy explanation I hope I'm not misunderstood

Or are there specialized 'insert cables', so this would be easier than cutting up 16 stereo cables?

Thanks for all your input!

 

[Arjan P]

Snafu, there are indeed dedicated insert cables, ready wired from stereo insert jack to two mono jacks for send and return. But since you mention the Neutrik nppa-tt-idc (not plugged but wired connections), the two mono plugs would be useless for you. Better buy 8 Stereo jack - Stereo jack cables of double your required length, cut them in two and you have two insert cables ready to be wired to your patchbay.

 

[cmaffia]

They sell insert cable pairs where one is tip and the other sleeve for send and returns applications.

 

[snafu]

Snafu, there are indeed dedicated insert cables, ready wired from stereo insert jack to two mono jacks for send and return. But since you mention the Neutrik nppa-tt-idc (not plugged but wired connections), the two mono plugs would be useless for you. Better buy 8 Stereo jack - Stereo jack cables of double your required length, cut them in two and you have two insert cables ready to be wired to your patchbay.

That's actually a good idea I was looking for insert-cables right away when cmaffia mentioned them; I would have to spend around 70€ - vs. 48€ for the stereo cables. That's a good one.

Thanks also for clarifying, guys! All of your answers were really of great help to me! Maybe you remember that quiet some time ago I was asking for ways of more analog I/Os, and got valuable help from you guys as well (the latest question came up these days, and I was pretty sure the inserts could not be used as adequate outputs). Since this is all dedicated to the construction of my own home recording studio, I start playing with the thought of releasing a in depth documentation starting from the first sketches to the final "studio". You learn so much, especially each time you've taken the wrong direction, and I've been round some detours. But maybe these experiences are of value to people who'd also like to build their own studio. I've finished room-in-room building just recently, and my dry walls are ready to be painted. Hopefully later this year I can come up with some presentable results

 

[jamsire]

This thread is awesome! Rockum - thank you for the video. I have three analog cards - I use them like this:

1. I for parallel processing effects - through my busses (yeah you read that right).
2. The next one is for the soft inserts as you showed above.
3. The last one - the Inputs are for my RMC Fanout Box for my 13-pin MIDI guitars. It splits the strings into their own dedicated audio channels. Super sexy EQing individual strings and >>specific<< effects for >>specific< strings. Ahhhhhhh......!

On the Outputs, I have them going into my TL Audio Fat Track. It has four stereo inputs, so I get to group tracks and send them into into my yummy Fat Track's tubey circuitry.

Excellent video!!

 

[Rockum]

I appreciate that coming from the master of DM videos.

 

[Peter Batah]

@jamsire That all sounds so magical. Could there be more videos to go along with that in the future? Once can never get enough of your brilliant tutorials. Thanks you Sir. Have a safe and wonderful day! Peter

 

[Peter Batah]

@Rockum Loved your video on Hard vs Soft inserts. Another one that will be going into the vault. Keep 'em coming. Have a good one! Peter