Reaper 6 / DM3200 - fader issue

[snafu]

Hello everyone,

I just realized that when on the remote layer of my DM3200 while working in Reaper 6, the faders are offset from 0 dB. I must admit I didn't mix with the DM for a long time now.

When working in Samplitude Pro X3, the faders are at 0dB, just as expected. I am using in both DAWsy the same protocoll: Mackie and Mackie-Xtend.

Is there a way to calibrate the faders in Reaper?
It almost feels, as if the fader setting was for much smaller faders than 100mm. On the Control settings you can tweak the size (currently set to 9) - but there is a warning "leave at 9 unless you know what you're doing". Now, I don't know what I am doing, so I pass this question on to you

Ideas anyone?

cheers
snafu

 

[-mjk-]

@snafu are the track volumes in Reaper also offset or are they at 0?

 

[snafu]

@@snafu are the track volumes in Reaper also offset or are they at 0?

Yes, they are at 0dB.

I just realized this yesterday, when grabbing a fader at the DM that was set to 0dB in Reaper. I realized that it was actually about -5dB at the DM. So, quiet a difference.
Setting it to 0dB on the DM brought the fader in Reaper actually above 0dB - so there is an offset in between. I guess I would have realized this, should this always have been the case.

Is there a Reaper option to adabt to different fader sizes? (although there shouldn't - afaik they're already compensated by adjusting to different midi values...)

 

[-mjk-]

Sorry @snafu but I never use DAW control with Reaper. I'll try and find out if there is an offset for zero calibration.

 

[dmartin]

In Preferences >Appearance>Track Control Panel >Volume fader range -72 to +20 dB , set linear dB (1) or Max precision at +o (4.0). I prefer linear scaling myself .

 

[snafu]

Thank you guys - but something remains pretty strange:

Under Preferences --> Appearance --> Track Control Panel --> Volume fader range I now have -72 dB to +20 dB (formerly +12). And also 'linear 1.0' instead of 'default'.

Now my faders on behalf of the DM kinda work. 0 dB is the position on the DM and 0dB are shown in the reaper mixer - but the fader position reads another value, something around -12dB (Channel 1 that is - please refer to this image: https://www.mediafire.com/view/fk34e33hz8ddebt/fourth.PNG/file
I positioned my mouse over the fader where it shows 0dB - but look at the meter next to it. What does it show??)

If I set the DM's master fader to 0 dB it shows 0dB in Reaper on the center meter (which should be dBFs) - but does not match the 0dB indicator in Reaper (refer to this image: https://www.mediafire.com/view/t3e2s39c8oeo3sn/fifth.PNG/file ), and shows +16 dB. Again ????

Just to make sure: here is an image of the said options dialog:
https://www.mediafire.com/view/48oix03nutjdi2z/second.PNG/file
Is there another place to investigate into?

 

[snafu]

Oh - some confusion here, but problem not solved completely: I use Reaper for a good 9 months now, coming from Samplitude: somehow I took it as given, that my fader position matches the meter value (Samplitude). In Reaper, it doesn't.

So, that's why I get "different" values, when in reality they're not:

for example the master fader:
- set to 0dB in Reaper will set the DM master fader to -20dB. So, of course I was assuming this is not quiet right.

- same for the meter of the tracks: I see just the fader position in Reaper, which indicates 0dB. But I get a -6dB reading on my DM.

So, here is a whole another situation: The markings on my DM do not match what I see in Reaper. This is a problem! Maybe I am just spoiled by Samplitude, where -6dB in the DAW would show -6dB fader position on the DM's fader.

So, is there a way to "synchronize" them?

 

[dmartin]

Snaffu:
There are discussions in the Reaper forums about the fader markings not being consistent with any scale ie. , 1 line per dB etcetera I use a costume theme myself. the Master Fader will never match the channel faders; at lease not anyway I could figure out. Right click on Master meter and adjust the offset to match if you need the DM's meter to match.
I would use a theme that does not have the numbers written on the faders, Get you meter readouts to match instead.
In Sequioa, which I use ; like Samplitude , everything lines up except the master fader which, like in Reaper is at -10dB on Tascam DM.
This link may help:
https://forum.cockos.com/search.php?searchid=15289318

 

[snafu]

@dmartin: Thanks dmartin - so it's not me being to incompetent ;-)

I did a quick test with Samplitude earlier this day, so here are my findings:
1) if you leave everything at default, the readings are somewhat correct. But - 0dB in Samplitude are 0dB on the DM3200.
2) However you can calibrate your mixer to your DAW (Hardwarecontroller --> Fader callibration) with the result that you get what you see: not matter be it the fader on your DM3200 or in your DAW.

I think this is an easy to solve issue, and I will start a thread on the Reaper-Forum myself; maybe this will be considered in one of the next updates.

For the time being I am happy with a red dot, I sticked next to where 0dB would be when Reaper shows 0dB (so around -5 dB on my DM3200); I usually don't care much about the numbers, but 0dB is a must. Sometimes I want to compare signals against each other, where one would e.g. be 0.5 dB louder or quieter, so you need reliable scales.

I am a bit surprised they did not implement this yet.

 

[dmartin]

Guess I forgot to mention I use more than one DAW , changing hardware calibration every time I switch DAWs , especially since my monitors are set so that full volume; monitor control on DM all the way clockwise = 90dBFS, would be inconvenient, so I live with Reaper's shortfall.
Good luck on the Reaper Forum,my fingers are crossed.
I just switched my Reaper theme to default 6 and indeed 0dB = -12 on Reaper fader ; if you double click fader in Reaper it sets to 0dB = -12dB on fader. You could photoshop different numers on Reaper's faders to scale you prefer.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=181913

 

[snafu]

Guess I forgot to mention I use more than one DAW , changing hardware calibration every time I switch DAWs [...] would be inconvenient

Understandable. I use three DAWs: Reaper, Samplitude and Reason. Samplitude matches hard- and software scaling from the get go; never had to calibrate, to be honest. Same in Reason. Now I am not a tech expert, but when using a hardware controller mostly midi cc is transmitted that could be translated into different ratios of fader lane lengths and corresponding values. Exatly what most DAWs would use under the hood. So usually you should not worry about callibration at all. Reality is a different story though :-D

I'll report back should I really get substantial answers over at the reaper hub!

best regards
snafu

 

[-mjk-]

@snafu, what happens with the audio when you are not on the remote layer? If the Reaper track volume is at 0 does the level that reaches the console match the track level?

 

[snafu]

@mjk: yes, if I am not on remote layer, they match, meaning: I get the same readings (DAW-wise) and on the DM-screen if I check the channel input. But of course, without being remote, the faders on the DM are set to their last position

While in remote mode, the readings do also match; it's indeed just a, well, let's say: 'cosmetic' problem. I just encountered it, because in Reason and Samplitude the values do match (kinda, to be honest: depending on the internal resolution of the DAW, lower fader settings can and may vary, although not to a big extend; so -40dB in Samplitude maybe somewhat lower than -40 on my DM).

It's one of those problems you can work around, or completely ignore. It's just not very convenient, if you're used to otherwise. I don't know why they chose to do so, but it could have been/could be implemented otherwise. If you follow the link provided by dmartin you can see, there are several more people who think this is strange, to say the least.

For the time being it looks kinda 'wrong' to me, when I am looking at the faders, seeing them somewhere areound -5dB and having to think of them as "OK". It's a bit weird, but I guess one can get used to it. The question is: should you?