"Music snobs"

[shredd]

TLDR: what is your experience with - and methods for dealing with - "music snobs"?

One of the things I enjoy about the Tascam Forum here is that we're all sort of bound by our interest in/use of Tascam gear. From the greenest noob to the vast sea of amateurs to the tremendously capable/professional level users, we're part of it. It's particularly notable that the really pro-level types here - I'm looking at you guys, @-mjk- , @Arjan P , etc - even the @Phil Tipping and @Mark Richards and such - are happy to share their knowledge, advice, and experience, to help us amateurs.

I've had quite a bit of exposure to "music snobs" - those who disdain the interests, level of ability/capability, and/or styles of other musicians.
My most recent was with a old friend - I mean decades - who is a pretty solid saxophonist. He tends to consider jazz/fusion as the most 'elevated' incarnation of music, though he clearly enjoys the blues and git'rists who can jam/improv (a'la JBeck, et al).
Meanwhile, there's me: I tend to enjoy and recognize the talent in a great many genres and styles. Personally - as a performer, and in the studio - I tend towards oldies/classics/singer-songwriter stuff, and some garden-variety instrumental stuff...and not because I'm so amazing at any of it - I just enjoy doing it.
Recently mentioned to him a recording project I was doing, and he pretty much dumped on it. He compared what I was doing to "swifty"-grade crapp and suggested I just find some good players to do some real jamming with (which is what HIS interest is).

In the past, I've been hassled by players whose self-image was so inflated that they basically considered most everyone else inferior. I vividly recall a weekly open mic I went to for years, a really fun and enjoyable community gathering...and this one dood would show up, sit right at the edge of the stage, and basically scoff at what he considered pathetic abilities that were not worthy of public performance. Bear in mind that this individual was one of those self-styled savants, a bedroom noodler who couldn't play a single song start-to-finish, but considered Zappa to be the musical incarnation of God himself.

What do you do with these people?!?

 

[ButchA]

I've dealt with that in the past years also. It's not easy... I ended up straining my best buddy friendship over it back 20+ years ago.

Tim: He was (RIP Tim) an unbelievable I.T. hardware technician, networks, motherboards, video controllers, etc...
Me: I was software, Unix systems, database programming.

We worked for the same company and soon learned that we both played guitar, loved music, so we got together and a friendship was formed. We'd get together and jam on weekends. I'd show him stuff, he'd show me stuff, and we quickly figured out who is best at what.
Tim: Soaring vocals, that I could never ever do. Guitar was "not quite there", but suitable. So he stuck with lead vocals and rhythm guitar.
Me: Lead guitar, and lower harmony vocals (on occasion).
Me: Bass
Both of us: Drum machine programming, Cakewalk, Finale, etc...

We were basically a Duo as good friends in a garage, trying to have fun and see where it would go. We both went halves on an old Tascam 424 mkII cassette MTR (back in the day), and started writing and recording our own stuff.

Employment status hit a serious bad moment, as our I.T. company was bought out and it was like, "See ya! Too bad, so sad... You'll find something else down the road..."
So, Tim ended up at another I.T. company, and I landed another Unix DB programming position with a manufacturing company. We still kept in touch, and still jammed and got together as often as we could.

Getting to the point: Tim accidently made a fatal mistake with his new company of meeting other musicians, guitar players, drummers, etc... and worst --- the ultimate worst... HIS OWN BOSS who played guitar! Tim decided to invite his Boss, another guy (bass), and a younger guy on drums, and maybe turn it from a Duo (Tim & Me) into a full fledged band. Well... it immediately didn't quite gel. Tim's boss, somehow someway, decided to "TAKE OVER" like he was the #1 dude in the room and what he said was the Gospel! Whoa.... Whoa... Who the <expletive> are you?!?

Tim & I had our own original tunes we were working on. "The Boss" immediately squashed that whole concept, and laid down the law, saying, "This is what we should do. We should be a blues/rock band, and I know people... I mean, I *know people* who could get us gigs". You -- practice this. You -- learn this. You -- don't play the lick that way, play it like this...

Any variation of even a hint of using something as an acoustic intro, was squashed. "The Boss" was so arrogant, stuck up, and set in his ways, and everything fell apart in a cloud of dust within about 2 weeks.

Edit: Music composition, tossing ideas around, should be out of kindness and consideration, and a little "give and take". Maybe try this, maybe try that. Hey, if you play it like this, I could play the other part like this..." I know it's very harsh sounding and nasty, but the term "Band Nazi" comes to mind, when one person takes over 100% control and nobody has any creative insight.

 

[shredd]

Wow. That’s a prize winner of a story Butch!!!
And a real shame - there’s you ‘n yr pal having a good ‘ol time, until…well…

I swear - the “band nazi” concept could probably explain 91% of the band breakups ever. The rest are probably the drummer sleeping w everyone’s g/f…

 

[-mjk-]

Any variation of even a hint of using something as an acoustic intro, was squashed. "The Boss" was so arrogant, stuck up, and set in his ways, and everything fell apart in a cloud of dust within about 2 weeks.

That only works if I'm a contract player on salary. I'll play it however the boss wants. The immediate response from all of you should have been: "OK, let's start the salary negotiations now and you can have the contracts drawn up later."

In my personal experience with true rock stars is that they are all very nice and want to be treated like normal people. It's the intermediate, up and coming players that act how they think rock stars act. I can recognize them from across the room and I totally avoid them. They are rude and often have that "do you know who I am?" persona about them. I just act as if I have no earthly idea who they are, but (even worse) am not interested enough to find out. I can't tell you how many guitar players who "used to play with Boston" one might meet in a bar in that town.

 

[shredd]

"OK, let's start the salary negotiations now and you can have the contracts drawn up later."

In my personal experience with true rock stars is that they are all very nice and want to be treated like normal people

This interested me 'cuz in my time, I've met a gazillion "celebrity" types - actors/actresses, world-class athletes, musicians/composers, and of course scads of the obscenely wealthy.
In a great many cases, @-mjk- 's exactly right.
In some cases, they're still a little entitled, self-absorbed, and/or overly impressed with themselves/their self-perceived station in life.
In a few cases, they're so unimaginably obnoxious that I walked away wondering how said person got permission to breathe our air. Got stories that'd curl your eyebrows.

 

[-mjk-]

You're free to share them in the General Chat forum.

 

[shredd]

You're free to share them in the General Chat forum.

Amusing as I find my stories to be...they'd surely fall into the "TL/DR" category for normal people.
I'll recap (you young 'uns will probably haveta Google most of these):

• MOST favorites of all time: Anne Archer, Hillary Swank, Lawrence Kasdan, Fish (from Marillion), all the guys from the band "The Blessing", James Newton Howard, and Joe Sakic. And for a sitting POTUS, I thought "W" was a pretty decent guy, if not a superb prez.
• LEAST favorites of all time: K/L Gifford, Cheryl Hines, Alberto Tomba, Dick Cheney, Tom Cruise. And Oprah is far and away the human on earth I deem least-entitled to be breathing our air.

 

[mixerizer]

I have certainly felt put down, insulted and marginalized by other musicians in my life over the years, artists and players both famous and not. Some of the experiences really stung. I’ve also had amazing experiences with musicians from all levels of the ‘profession’/craft of music. This dizzying love of ours attracts all types, including all types of communication styles and personalities.

Like many things, when I feel that kind of effect on me, positive or negative, it can be useful to flip it around and look at my own behavior. After all, I hold some strong opinions and I tend to value my subjective impressions and preferences of gear, musical styles, ability, compositional choices etc - and I love to share them with other musicians.

I do try to stay open minded, freely admit when I am outside my expertise, engage in conversational listening more actively in the studio than in casual conversation but I don’t always know how best to express my own views. It can be challenging to enthusiastically share one’s own view without appearing to pass judgment upon another’s opinions, often when I am not judging them or their opinions at all. Like so many people, I am sure I have said a lot of critical things over the years that have made me sound like I was dumping on something important to another person. So I tend to try and keep my opinions to myself in the studio except when elicited or when I am with my closest musical colleagues and friends.

From gear to influences to repertoire to recording, when the environment and people are comfortable, healthy and accessible, the process of making music can still be focused - and the contrasting strong opinions can be expressed. Then, tough decisions can be made about what goes on the record and what doesn’t. If those elements aren’t right, people talk and play past each other.

So I generally came to decide if I’m gonna collaborate it’s either out of good chemistry or good economics.

And when it’s a straight-up paid gig, all the rules of business professionalism apply - including your right to refuse service and kick the high maintenance ones out while you raise your rates.

 

[-mjk-]

I say, let's all just be glad this is not an astronomy forum.

 

[shredd]

be glad this is not an astronomy forum

Or American politics.