DP malfunction - Jog Play & Time Line view

[shredd]

My O/G DP-32 had a nice little sandbox tantrum today I thought I'd tell you all about, in hopes you never do this to yours. Or maybe it's just MY unit?!?
Here's how it happens:

You're working on a song. You're at the main display window, with [Time Line] (instead of "meter") view selected.
I pressed [Jog Play] to check where I was on a certain track by using JogPlay's wav display.
The unit absolutely spazzed: the JogPlay wav display did NOT appear; the display showed the TimeLine view, but totally "jittered", while the sound also "jittered" - as if I'd selected an in/out punch of about 1/10 of a second, and it was on repeat.

I haven't tried to "re-create" it, and once I "re-booted" (shut down and restarted) the unit, it was gone. But I won't be doing THAT again (pressing Jog Play while in Time Line view)!!!

 

[Mark Richards]

Shredd, you've not discovered a glitch, but rather "normal behavior", or so says TASCAM engineering (go figure).

Here's my correspondence with them from Jan 2020:
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 08:55
To: <custser@tascam.com>
Subject: Re: DP-24 - Jog/Play function

Your engineers did not understand what I was reporting.
I own a DP-24 running firmware version 1.21.

This is a simple, repeatable exercise that demonstrates the error in the firmware.
1. select a track with content.
2. place unit in Jog/Play mode (waveform screen).
3. raise the stereo bus fader to zero (unity gain/all the way up).
4. raise the selected track fader to zero (unity gain).
5. rocking the Jog/Data wheel, the waveform moves and audio is heard to precisely locate the
desired section of the selected track.

[HERE’S WHERE THE PROBLEM PRESENTS]
6. while in Jog/Play (waveform screen), press the F1/Timeline button.
7. the display switches from waveform to timeline.
8. At this point, all that is heard, every time, is a staccato electronic feedback from the selected
track (da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da) until the track fader is lowered to infinity.

Raising any track fader or multiple track faders where the track has content produces the same staccato electronic feedback.

I can’t explain it any more clearly then that.
==========
---- Reply Message ----
Mark,
Our engineering department sent the following information...

The symptom that you were able to duplicate is staccato electronic feedback this customer is
describing as da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da?

If so, this is normal behavior as I replied in previous mail.
* Excerpt from previous reply.

"repeat playback sound of short period would be heard."
= Playback sound is da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da like customer is pointing out.​

* Please refer to owner's manual page 55-56.
[click to expand]

Listening to the track sounds
1. Use the transport button or location function to move the playback position near a position where you want to cue.

2. Press the JOG PLAY button to enter the search mode.
You can switch between the timeline display and waveform display by pressing the F1 key. Select the timeline display screen.

3. Use the CURSOR buttons to scale up/down the display horizontally (time) as necessary. Press the CURSOR button to scale down horizontally (time), or the CURSOR button to scale up. Scaling up makes it easier to cue the position precisely. Now, jog sounds can be heard. (Jog sound refers to a repeat playback sound of a short period.)

4. Use the JOG/DATA dial to find a cue point while changing the jog sound playback position.

5. When the cue point is determined, press the JOG PLAY button to return to the Home screen.

NOTE
The transport button is available even in search mode. However, while the timeline is displayed, pressing the PLAY button switches between the normal playback and jog sound playback, and pressing the STOP button performs jog sound playback.

= Playback sound is da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da like customer is pointing out.
===================
For the life of me, I can't see how this could be a useful function!

 

[shredd]

For the life of me, I can't see how this could be a useful function!

Thnx @Mark Richards - that is indeed the very episode I experienced. And I thought it was me/my machine.
I’m not sure how/why this got designed in or allowed to be part of the design. But as complex as these machines are, I guess a coupla SNAFU’s aren’t hard to imagine…
The other thing is I couldn’t find any way to “back out” of this state - and had to shut down/restart…
Thanks for the explanation!

 

[dctdct]

In my opinion Tascam support decided to close the case without investing more in R&D.
Tag: It's a feature, not a fault.

 

[shredd]

In my opinion Tascam support decided to close the case without investing more in R&D.
Tag: It's a feature, not a fault

Wait. Waaaaaaaiiitt. You're suggested a huge, f0r-profit corporation put financial constraints on the resolution of a known product problem?!?
I can't belEEV it. My world is crumbling.

 

[Old No7]

= Playback sound is da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da l

This reply is NO HELP at all...

But when reading all the da - da - da - da - da's above, all I could think of was the King from "Hamilton" -- which is a really funny part of the musical!!!!!

But of course, this is not........

I too, have been "da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da/da'd" to death on my DP.

Gee, I wonder if Tascam will "Send a battalion to show their love" for us ? ? ? ?

Old No7

 

[David Porter]

So.... the lesson here.... don't do that.

 

[Arjan P]

The Police already knew about this issue in 1980, hence Sting wrote the song De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. (Sorry, couldn't resist.. )

 

[Stew71]

... And of course Trio (and their trusty Casio VL-1), a year later with Da Da Da.

This is obviously why Tascam have done this. It's cool.

 

[shredd]

And of course Trio (and their trusty Casio VL-1), a year later with Da Da Da.

I freekin’ love this.
And it always reminds me how I’ve wasted my life trying to play guitar - I’ve been playing since before Sting was a nobody actor, & I still have to figure out which way the pointy end goes.

I should spare myself the effort - just go on AGT with my hair dyed like Dennis Rodman & jam out on my TinkerToys Xylophone. I've played waaaay too many shows where the audience's facial expressions are like this...

 

[Arjan P]

... And of course Trio (and their trusty Casio VL-1), a year later with Da Da Da.

That's a great video! I don't think I've ever seen such a throat mic used in music - fantastic!

 

[Phil Tipping]

Just to revisit the OP, I've checked the behaviour on mine (someone else had just emailed me with a similar query) and I think the stuttering sound makes perfect sense. When it's in jog-play + timeline mode, the machine repeatedly plays a tiny snippet of the audio in real-time at that point, i.e. it is not pitch-shifted. If you press Timeline again and toggle back to the waveform view, you can also jog back & forth there, but in this case you hear the audio at whatever speed you turn the jog wheel.
This all seems to be a reasonable feature to me.
I had no lockups or freezes, so I guess if you are getting these, that's down to the usual culprit of the sd-card such as performance, faulty or too many ZZ files.
Update: the other difference/advantage of switching to timeline view in jog-play mode is that all tracks are played (subject to their faders), as opposed to just the selected track in waveform mode.

 

[Mark Richards]

Phil said
I had no lockups or freezes, so I guess if you are getting these, that's down to the usual culprit of the sd-card such as performance, faulty or too many ZZ files.

I agree. I've had no problem with backing out of timeline mode, or with having the unit freeze or lock up when I've accidentally stumbled into this timeline "feature".

So, not a "malfunction", although I have yet to make any practical use of this for editing purposes.

 

[shredd]

backing out of timeline mode

I haven't tried it yet - when this has happened to me, I tried to "back out" of the JogPlay - didn't work and hadda cold-boot.
Next time (if I'm every stewpyd enough to get stuck in it again) I'll try backing out of Timeline mode, not JogPlay.
When you're a mewzisshun, bein' stewpyd is a major P.I.T.A.!!!

 

[-mjk-]

As long as there are no SD card issues it should work flawlessly.

 

[Phil Tipping]

...I have yet to make any practical use of this for editing purposes.

I think the designers provided two separate features. Timeline view jogs & plays snippets from all tracks, which is what happens with a real reel-to-reel. Admittedly you can't vary the playback speed but it's still useful for locating audio in the context of the whole song. Waveform view allows more precise adjustment as the playback speed & direction are also linked to the wheel, but it can only display one waveform at a time so it plays the selected track in isolation.

Next time... I'll try backing out of Timeline mode, not JogPlay....

You can 'back out' by pressing either button; there's nothing special to remember.
There's no stewpyd about it... I think when you suddenly heard all your tracks 'stuttering' when you weren't expecting it was a bit of a shock

 

[shredd]

As long as there are no SD card issues it should work flawlessly.

Yup - I have "good" cards, and maintain them, and 'remove' them from DP duty if they mess up...

And thanks for the tip @Phil Tipping - I'm trying to avoid stumbling into that action, but when it did, trying to 'back out' of it with the JogPlay button had no effect, nor did the transport "stop" button, or anything else I pushed. IF it ever happens again, I'll be going right to the Timeline button...

 

[Adrian Pollock]

This just happened to me for the first time, thought I'd found a bug with this repeating "da da da da. " jitter thing when switching to timeline in jog play mode grom wave view.

A quick pop on here (the forum) reveals the "da da da da..." fan club

As long a I know it is not my machine and is known behaviour I can relax.

Cheers all.

 

[Mark Richards]

I think the designers provided two separate features...

Thanks, Phil. You woke up my brain cells to take a closer look at the Wave Form and Time Line operation in Jog Play Mode:

Waveform view allows more precise adjustment as the playback speed & direction are also linked to the wheel, but it can only display one waveform at a time so it plays the selected track in isolation.

Jog Play In Waveform Process

• Starting playback in Multitrack mode, pressing Jog Play displays the waveform of the selected Track and playback stops.

• Pressing Play, the waveform moves in real time and audio for all Tracks is heard on the Stereo Master Bus.

• Soloing the selected Track isolates the audio for the selected Track's waveform during playback.

• In "Stop", the waveform is stationary. Manually rotating the Jog Wheel scrubs (rocks) the waveform of the selected Track at the Stop location, allowing precise cueing of the selected Track by rotating the Jog Wheel. Audio playback speed of the selected Track waveform is determined by how fast or slow the Jog Wheel is rotated back and forth.

• Pressing Jog Play exits to Multitrack Mode.

Timeline view jogs & plays snippets from all tracks, which is what happens with a real reel-to-reel. Admittedly you can't vary the playback speed but it's still useful for locating audio in the context of the whole song.

Jog Play In Timeline Process

• Starting playback in Timeline Mode, the Time Line moves in real time and audio for all Tracks is heard on the Stereo Master Bus.

• During playback in Time Line Mode, pressing Jog Play enters Waveform Mode and playback stops. Pressing Time Line (F1) at this point plays the audio at the stop location (the staccato sound). Pressing Play continues playback in real time. Pressing Play again stops playback and plays the audio (staccato sound) at the new stop location.

• Switching to Jog Play/Waveform Mode (F1) allows scrubbing the waveform of a selected Track for precise cueing at the Stop location (as described above). Returning to Jog Play Timeline Mode (F1), pressing Play again continues normal playback to find the next cue point location in the song.

• Soloing a selected Track or Tracks isolates the audio for the selected Track(s) during the Timeline playback/cueing operation.

• When all cue points have been identified in Jog Play/Time Line Mode, pressing Jog Play exits to normal Time Line mode.