DM3200: where can I plug in my guitar?

snafu

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Tascam DM 3200 + IF-FW_DMMK II
So, this question is dumb, I know, but I must (to my shame) admit, I never felt the need to be more accurate on this one: where do I plug my guitar in the DM 3200?

I mean, I got the DM since 2008 or 2010 and I always used a channel's line in on the backside. Now apparently this seems to be wrong (thank you, Internet). Now, I know you should not crank your guitar up your analog mixer's channel input, unless you use an DI. So I have a DI here from Radieal Engineering. Plugging my guitar in the DI and the DI into the XLR-channel input, I hear no difference between the direct way (git to channel line in) and DI at the Mic in. [I should have said "heard" - tested this a few years ago...apparently I am a lazy dog...]

Now what's the pro way, anyway?

Thanks for helping out,
best regards
snafu
 
That's they way to do it. Guitar -> Instrument Cable -> Direct Box -> DM XLR input.

The quality difference is more apparent as you increase distance. A short run and you might not notice much difference.
 
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Ok, this may be a more technical response than you'd:

In any electrical circuit we have a characteristic known as impedance. In a DC circuit the impedance is the resistance of the cable, the resistance to the flow of electricity. In any circuit other than DC, in other words, where the current flow alternates, whether a power circuit, audio, radio frequency circuit, 2 other characteristics come into play, capacitance and inductance. Both of these characteristics, unlike resistance, are frequency dependent and create a characteristic know as reactance. In these non DC circuits, impedance is the combination of resistance and reactance.

To get good fidelity of an audio signal from your guitar into an amplifier, mixer, or anything else, you want the output impedance of the guitar to match the input impedance of the device it is feeding, in your case, your mixer. The problem is that guitar inductive pickups have a typical output impedance around 1,000,000 ohms and piezo pickups are as high as 10,000,000 - 20,000,000 million ohms while line inputs are generally in the 10,000 - 50,000 ohm range and unbalanced microphone inputs run in the 1,000 - 3,000 ohms range. So, you can see that there is a large mismatch between a guitar and a line input and an even larger one feeding a mic input.

As Rockum responded, for short runs (6 - 15 feet), you may not notice the difference at all. But as the runs get longer, the capacitive effects of the cable will usually bleed off the highs making the sound duller as the high frequencies are lost (actually, shorted out through the growing capacitance). A proper DI will have a high input impedance for the instrument, usually in the 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 range and it better "couples" the signal from the guitar into the DI box. The output of the DI box is usually designed to interface with a line input, and therefore is usually in the aforementioned 10,000 - 50,000 range. The impedance change inside the DI box is usually made using a transformer or an actual active circuit, meaning a powered electronics circuit.

For short runs, you likely can plug a guitar or bass right into a mic input, properly adjust the trim and record straight in. As the run gets longer, you won't be able to ignore the high frequency loss. And that loss doesn't come just from the impedance mismatch, you'll also experience a signal loss and higher noise levels because the high impedance across the length of the cable is attenuating the signal and allowing more noise to accumulate.

Some DI boxes have a balanced mic output and that will usually provide a low 300 - 600 ohm input impedance. This is ideal for long runs as the low impedance means that you lose little signal and acquire little additional noise. And balanced mic inputs are also in that low range so you get a high fidelity transfer of the guitar (or bass) output to the mixer input. For such balanced runs, the DI box will have XLR connectors and possibly TRS connectors also, though the latter will often be at line input and impedance levels — still better than high impedance, but not as good as low-impedance balanced levels.

NOTE: If you do have a DI with an XLR output and you use itto get any kind of signal into a mixer, make sure that you have phantom power from the mixer TURNED OFF for the channel into which you plug in. Some DIs have DC filtering to keep the phantom power out, but not all, and those that don't could cause problems, especially for the mixer.

Finally, many pre-amps offer one or two DI inputs that affect an impedance match with circuitry. These usually offer excellent matching characteristics with great frequency fidelity, high levels, and low noise.

I hope this helps.
 
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Thank you very much - both of you!
@Rockum: that's been the fast easy to understand explanation I needed. Thanks mate!

@skier: your in depth explanation is very much appreciated. And I read it twice (so no lazy dog this time). Since I do this as hobby, I've been always recording myself, sitting right in front of the DM, so cable's been never any longer than 4.9 feet. This would explain me hearing no apparent difference.
One final question though:
For short runs, you likely can plug a guitar or bass right into a mic input, properly adjust the trim and record straight in
That's nearly what I was doing the whole time, except I was using the line-in jack of one of the sixteen input channels (in contrary to their XLR inputs). What's with these? Is there any difference?
best regards
snafu
 
The line input is ok if it has sufficient gain. Generally, guitar outputs are higher than a mic signal, but not as high as standard line input levels. Some guitars have hotter pickups because there are more wraps around the core. Other guitars have active electronics, so the pickups signals are amplified. Any of these reasons could explain why you've had sufficient levels to get decent recordings of your guitar.

XLR connectors provide low-level, balanced inputs, and possibly phantom power for capacitor microphones.
 
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I see, thank you. Time to re-activate my good 'ol DI though :-D
 
@snafu What DI model are you using exactly? And, thanks for the great question. In the same boat here!

@Rockum Thank you. Short, but sweet!

@skier Awesome explanation. Have copied and pasted into a Word document for future reference.
 
Thanks again. I really appreciate the assistance. Trust me, I need all the help that I can get. Getting back unto the bicycle so-to-speak after many many years. A little intimidating to be totally honest with you. Peter
 
You're welcome. I can very well understand you, trust me! I go t my mixer for some time now, and still find out cool stuff beyond the manual, I'd never have expected! It's a very cool tool that has almost limitless options when it comes down to routing. A shame Tascam let it down...

Well, it does not have to be intimidating at all ;-) It took me almost a whole week, before I was able to get sound out of the DM for the first time. Thus having studied the manual. Speaking about: I found out that said manual is very clumsy and unituitive when it comes down to explanations - that's where I found (thank heavens) this forum! Total cool guys here, never short on a helping hand. You see, even for stupid questions like mine from above they don't kick or bite :D
 
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You are absolutely right about this awesome community. I have been asking a bunch of noob questions myself. But, each and every one of them has been answered in a prompt and non judgmental fashion. I can't tell you how much that means to me. And, I am sure that most of these gurus have better things to do with their precious time.
 

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