DM3200 Automation/Sync questions

[fclum]

Hello all,

I'm having some trouble understanding how to edit the DM 3200 automation. Specifically, how do I delete mute events? Particularly if they are at the beginning of the track.

Also, when using DM auto while synced to Logic Pro X if I try to start the sequence from Logic rather that from the DM's transport controls the sequence plays, stops for a second, writes auto on the DM, backs up about a second, runs for 5 seconds or so and repeats the whole thing until I stop the playback and start at the beginning using the play button on the DM. It's it's especially annoying if I want to repeat a section in the middle of a track.

After about a week of looking I've really been unable to find anything online concerning these issues! I imagine that the editing of automated mutes is covered somewhere in the automation manual (I have both the printed version and a PDFs version on my iPad) but I must say that I find the a lot of the DM 3200 documentation to be less than helpful in many situations. The automation manual has many detailed explanations about using the DM's auto but I haven't found anything that's been helpful in answering these questions.

Any DM 3200 automation gurus in the house?

 

[jamsire]

You need to use the physical midi in of the board for proper MTC to work properly from your computer - not the USB. You can get the Logic faders to control the DM faders, knobs, etc. - as long as you assign them. It's not "a thread" solution, but a video solution - I wish I had time to do it for you, but I don't. If you are a midi guru, it will be easier.

 

[fclum]

I think you may be misunderstanding the issue. All I need the computer to do is send TimeCode to the DM so that the Automation system can tell where it is in the track. I've been succesful at acheiving that. Controlling the DM 3200 fader from Logic's faders is not what I'm trying to do. I don't do much of any mixing inside my Mac; it's all done on the DM 3200 using the boards automation, independent of the computer. Everything that I'm hoping to get assistance with occurs completely within the DM 3200. I need to understand how to edit (i.e. remove) automation events such as channel mutes that are DM-3200 automation file events.Not computer of Logic Pro X events. In other words, edit the automation data in the DM 3200.

I've been using the automation in the DM 3200 successfully for a few years now but have never had that "aha!" moment when it came to proper editing of automation data. When I need to make edits to a track's automation on the DM 3200 I've been going back to the beginning of the piece and redoing the whole automation track all over with the updated moves. Based on the sophistication of this console and the flexibilty of what it can do, I assume that there must be a better way! I wish I could start at a point nearer to the auto issue that I'm trying to correct (somewhere in the middle of the track for example) but as described above I haven't been able to start at locations other then the beginning of the sequence without stopping and starting as described above.

 

[jamsire]

Sounds like you want two separate things to happen - which require a "follow-follow" or "lead-lead" situation.

You want to receive MTC data from the computer (the DM sends out the same data just fine by the way and would be much easier to edit), but edit the automation data on the DM.

I send MTC to the software, edit the automation data from the DM, on the DM, from anywhere in the song in software.

Physical midi outs. That's how I've been doing it since 2008.

Good luck.

 

[waterstrum]

Hey Ernie....
You got me wondering about the difference between midi over USB vs. the old 5 pin midi plug.
I'm getting functionality and bi-directional communication over USB.
Is there an advantage to using the 5 pin connectors?
Thanks!

 

[jamsire]

It's more about what the board itself does with the physical midi in's and outs. There's too much to type! But I use the 5 pin for communications when it comes to mapping and MTC, outside the UDL. I am separating the different functions I need with the different midi posts. I also use a MOTU MTPAV midi rack manager.

 

[jamsire]

I'm saying - for me - with my configuration for what I do, the 5 pin connections allow me to specify different functions for the three different midi ports in the DM.

 

[fclum]

I hope that someone is still reading this thread and can help me figure this out! I may not have stated my issue clearly enough in my first post so I'll try again.

In some of my recording sessions I've been using Logic Pro X 10.2.1 essentially as a tape recorder. I do nothing from within Logic other than to record the tracks. No automation, no mutes, nothing. Logic sends timecode to the DM 3200 so the mixer's automation can follow along. MMC transport functions work fine (with the exception of a problem stated below). In this type of session I record ALL of my automation inside the DM-3200. I don't control Logic's faders or any of it's other parameters (other than play, record and stop) from the mixer. Everything is done in the DM 3200. Basic automation.

Here are my questions. First, how do I erase an erroniously placed mute switch event from the DM 3200's automation playback? I'm not referring to a mute in the Logic Pro, but one recorded into the DM's memory by hitting the mute button on a channel on the physical panel of the DM 3200. No mutes or automation events are recorded in Logic.

Second, How do I start from anywhere other than the beginning of the track? If i hit the stop button and then the play button it ALWAYS starts at the beginning of the track. If I use the jog/shuttle or fast forward/rewind keys it will locate and start from the point I select but the track will then play back for 2 or 3 seconds, stop, automation will write on the DM, playback will resume for 2-3 seconds, stop, auto will write on the DM, etc. over and over until I hit the stop button and then hit the play button at which point the track starts from the beginning again. I guess what I want is the ability to "pause" and resume playback from the same place I stopped or start in the middle of the piece somewhere.

Third and last, when saving locate positions on the DM, I can see that the positions are indeed being stored in the DM 3200's location memory but when I try to locate to one of them the mixer displays the location point and looks like it's sending it but Logic does not respond. It continues playback as if nothing happened.

I've been struggling with this for a long time. It seems likely that it's something simple but i'm totally stumped! It looks like MMC is set up properly, MIDI over USB 3, etc. Can anyone offer some help?

 

[Bob Jonezon]

I understand your issue, and ran into the exact same thing recently when mixing an album using the DM's built in automation. I love the engine, and the workflow. But did the same thing, and accidentally wrote a mute event. And it really wasn't intuitive on how to remove events.

I ended up writing a quick mute / unmute, which happened to work because of where it was.

I don't think a lot of people use the DMs, automation facilities, (tend to use it in remote mode to control the DAW automation engine), that's why there's some confusion.

It's been something on my list of things I wanted to go back and figure out after finishing that last album.

I do *love* the console system though. Just need to get all these quirks figured out.

 

[Bob Jonezon]

As far as the time code start point you mentioned, I had the same issue, and found everything worked best using the DM's internal MTC generator, and having the DAW slave to that (I was using cubase)

 

[jamsire]

The MTC issue is easily solved if you allow the DM to be the master clock. I don't understand why you use the software to control the hardware. The built in timecome generator is solid and controls, locates perfectly - in my studio.

Normally, I would just do a video, but I'm not up to it physically. I will fix your automation edit issues later tonight. I have to do it on the board and write it down at the same time. Then, i hope it will work for you.

 

[waterstrum]

Regarding fclum's specific question about deleting a mute event in the DM automation timeline.
I just read the whole manual for DM automation and could not find a simple solution.
I don't see a way to delete specific switch events, other than to write over them with more switch events...

I used to use the Panasonic DA7 and it offered software that showed a realtime flowing window of the onboard automation.
One could select and delete or alter the data on a computer screen.

Is there any way the DM could offer visual editing of the internal DM automation?

I defer to Jamsire here.

Any way for us to see and edit the onboard automation on a screen?

Sure would be cool.

 

[fclum]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I think that I've solved one of the problems! I've discovered that by merely un-checking the "Transmit MTC" box in the "MIDI Sync Project Settings" page I can successfully start from any point in the sequence without the glitch described in my previous post.

Waterstrum: I agree. Nowhere in the manual is a clear explanation given as to how to remove a mute automation event. Perhaps "reading between the lines" on some of the info given in the automation documentation will show a way to do it but I haven't been able to figure it out yet. I don't like having "mute-on","mute-off" events scattered all over a project just to counteract each other. As far as a way to edit automation data onscreen goes; while it would be great, if you consider that Tascam hasn't updated anything else concerning the DM3200 in several years it seems unlikely that that will happen anytime soon.

 

[fclum]

Well, as they say: back to the drawing board! After my last post I realized that by un-checking the aforementioned box in Logic, the DM is no longer receiving timecode and hence is no longer playing back the automation data!

Jasmine: While it's probably not necessary for you to do a video it would be greatly appreciated if you explain the suggestion you made above in a little more detail.

Thanks

 

[jamsire]

The Mute event thing is just knowing where you did honestly. I'm someone who writes notes about a mix, so I always write over the event, or rehearse my mixes using that feature on the board. But as I have mentioned earlier, my console is the MTC generator, my software is the MTC receiver. I set it up in 2008 and never looked back. Probably wouldn't be a bad odea to just record the Mute events in Logic. Won't hurt anything.

 

[fclum]

Thanks jasmire. I appreciate your help.